If anyone knows LA and wants to track the details without dramatic commentary the CalFire site can be very helpful.
https://www.fire.ca.gov/incidents It’s a statewide site, so select the particular fire you want to track by name. In particular it shows where fire is and is not, which is a counterpoint to the apocalypse story on the news. This is a terrible, tragic event, and also much of a vibrant city is still here. The CalFire site is a little technical, but it’s accurate
So many thoughts on the fires, housing crisis and development. I am a geologist and work in environmental consulting and have worked with developers on various fronts, mostly contamination, in Arizona. What is frustrating is we have this nexus of housing crisis and fires. Everyone just wants to change zoning and build on vacant land, but that comes with such a price, and it just isn’t feasible. Waiving the environmental laws temporarily doesn’t ultimately fix the problem. It seems if developers would actually build homes to withstand the climate, fire and earthquake, in places like socal it would at least help the problem. Hurricane resistant neighborhoods exist in Florida-I know it can be done for fires as well. It is concerning the idea of rebuilding quickly because that won’t withstand another fire. It never does, because everyone’s memory is so short. There are just so many factors most people have no idea exist. It also bleeds into the thought of owning a home and how we as Americans have made that the “go to” when in so many other places living in a flat within a building is the norm. Maybe the focus should turn to multi family housing that is built to be resilient. Just so many things here to balance with the needs of a community and the realities of our environment.
The next concern is PFAS in firefighting foams-I don’t know if California had already banned it, but with some PFAS constituents now being considered a hazardous substance, that is a whole additional level of cleanup where it applies, and super costly.
My daughter moved to Orange County two years ago and has met several new friends, also in their early 20s, who were born in CA, went to college there, and have never been east of the mississippi - their families would vacation in Hawaii, Asia, and other west coast states and Canada. They have no sense of where many cities on the east coast are relative to each other and how long (or short) the travel is between them. Even though she explained that she lived about 8 miles from
the White House, once they heard she grew up in Virginia they wanted to know how close she lived to farms (answer not close at all!!) All that to say - we could do a much better job promoting the value of traveling around the US to learn more about our own country and the people who live here to take away some of the stigma and fears people have about certain places.
I'm a little late to this since I live in L.A., and it's been a lot this past week. I'm in Burbank, so right inbetween the Eaton and Palisades fires. Did not have to evacuate but have been glued to the Watch Duty app and know people who have lost everything. We've owned our house 20 years, same insurance, never made a claim, and are in the "flats" of the valley (so not in or near the hills), and yet I'm girding myself to hear that my house insurance is cancelled in a year.
I'm also slowly coming to accept that yes, I and my kids are being directly affected by climate change, like so many others in the world, and we have to move. (I have a trans kid and we really, REALLY like it here and don't want to move!) Also, I'm growing increasingly pissed at Boomers -- they had the opportunity to do something about this and didn't. Between our fascist leader and climate change, what kind of world are we leaving our kids?? If anyone has tips for trying to climb out of this existential despair, sincerely, I'd love to hear.
It feels very strange being here in San Diego county, two hours south of Los Angeles and yet a world away from all of the devastation that is happening. We've had red flag warnings because the Santa Anas have been blowing off and on over the past week, but thankfully any fires that have started have been quickly put out.
Yes! I live in San Clemente, where things are normal in a strange and sort of disturbing way! The conditions (dry air and brush) are ripe for fire, but otherwise it’s a quiet winter.
My mom and dad just accidentally met Jose Andres and Eric Ripert a couple of days ago. They were at a restaurant in Grand Cayman and took a picture with them, not knowing that they were anybody at all, was apparently a sort of joke facilitated by Ripert. After the photo was taken, then realized it was Eric Ripert and sent the pic to me. Looked at it for 0.5 seconds and was like, um, also Jose Andres? 😂😂😂
I don’t know the solution, but I know every time I get an email or snail mail from my insurance company here in FL, I think “Oh boy. Here it is. The cancellation notice.” Thankfully we’ve been ok so far and have never had a claim. We live in the center of the state and with every storm plenty of neighbors have lost roofs. I have never worried about my physical safety in a hurricane, but I do worry about catastrophic loss of my house.
I just took a new job in development (fundraising) for a major hospital / academic medical center in New England and it’s made me think a lot about charitable giving. The office is on track to raise over half a BILLION dollars this year, mostly from “principal” 9-figure gifts. The ways we identify prospects, negotiate with donors, and incentivize big-ticket giving are wild and have brought up a lot of conflicting thoughts & emotions for me. On the one hand, yes, if you make it possible for us to build a new cancer center that will transform care for a whole region of the country, I think it’s reasonable to make a fuss and put your name on everything and recognize that out of all the places you could have put that money you chose this hospital. On the other hand, the making of that fuss and catering to these donors feels really frivolous, outdated, and misaligned with our values around equity and inclusion.
Clearly a very different angle on giving, but it’s all connected.
We just bought our home in Southern California that is of course deemed to be high fire risk and it was a requirement to have full coverage including fire so most companies were offering a partial plan and then we’d have to do the CA Fair plan. This was my first time hearing of this and was an education. Some companies offered full coverage but for a huge premium. We did finally get relatively lucky and got fully covered by SafeCo for a reasonable price. It was very interesting navigating this. I’m curious if Safeco will keep us on.
Having full coverage, including fire seemed to be a requirement of our mortgage. I wonder what would happen if we were dropped? Would the mortgage company give us some sort of deadline to sign up for the fair plan? Or maybe that was just a requirement to open the mortgage? Goodness. Insurance is so confusing.
I also have Safeco in California. I can tell you that if they decide not to renew they will send you a notice that gives you about 2 months to find a new policy. I'll spare you the whole story, but we got the letter, had to jump through some hoops, and we still have them. I'm in your exact situation where Safeco is the only one willing to cover us.
I had an issue with my homeowners insurance last year where my plan dropped me and while I was shopping for a new plan there was a communication snafu so the mortgage company bought insurance for the home on my behalf and charged my escrow. When my situation was settled they cancelled the plan and everything was fine, but, as to your question, I suspect that the bank will not let the house be uninsured.
Interesting!! I hope this means that for the homeowners who lost their homes in these fires that have an open mortgage, that the fair plan was implemented. Those that owned it outright may have been out of luck if they didn’t enact the fair plan on their own behalf.
I am an architect and my college thesis was focused on recovery from disaster. It was not long after Katrina, and a large tornado in Kansas. The portion of my research I was really drawn to was the impact on building codes and design. I’ve heard the Great Chicago Fire referenced by people speaking about LA, and I’m really interested in more about that. California has some of the most stringent building codes, and while I don’t know much about them (I’m in Ohio), it seems like fire wasn’t addressed as much as earthquakes or other issues.
There’s a link in the post from the LA times that talks about it. I would love to hear more about that (I live in Florida and…it feels relevant for reasons)
Frivolous questions after this serious episode, but there are a few cheaper tickets available to Cincinnati on Southwest, so I am thinking of buying some for the July event. Will everything be done by Sunday night? Will events be central in Cincinnati, or will attendees need cars?
Yes, everything will be done by Sunday night. We’re finalizing our itinerary and venue. I think we’re going to encourage car pooling and ride shares and such, but…you’ll probably want a car.
For anyone interested in learning more about fires, the book Fire Weather by John Vaillant is amazing. Its about the 2016 Fort Mac fire in Canada that spread super fast due to the perfect combination of weather and led to the entire city needing to be evacuated with many parts destroyed
1. Maui prioritized getting people housed by changing short term rental laws, giving tax breaks for long term leases and using FEMA funds to build tiny homes. We go there frequently and finally in December saw the results. They also relied heavily on EPA and FEMA teams to clear debris.
Residential has always been prioritized. They are now starting a citizens commission to discuss rebuilding the historic part of Lahaina.
This isn’t a perfect comparison because it was a “relatively” small area.
2. @Sarah when are you going to Paris? We are going the beginning of March for the same reason
I just have a silly comment. The way that Sarah was advertising the event in Cincinnati, made me laugh because it made me think that it will be in the “Beth Metropolitan Area”.
Here’s my recent experience with homeowners insurance, and how the insurance algorithms are wonky sometimes. In June we moved from Norfolk, VA to Virginia Beach, VA.
Norfolk is considered one of the most at-risk places on the entire east coast for sea level rise as the result of climate change. Most of the city sits at or below sea level. The city has consulted with Dutch engineers to plan for the future. There is a large flood wall downtown, and development has to account for regular tidal flooding. Homeowners have gotten federal money to lift their houses onto risers in more flood-prone areas. Our former house was about 5 minutes from the Chesapeake Bay and I think sat around 3 feet above sea level.
When we moved, our homeowners insurance company (Nationwide) dropped us, because our new house “was too close to the coast” and they are pulling out of Virginia Beach. Our new house is about 30 minutes from either the Chesapeake Bay or Atlantic Ocean. We live near no tidal waterways. Our house is at a higher elevation (but I don’t remember what it is).
So even though this house is FARTHER from the water in general, Nationwide’s algorithm said our house shouldn’t be insured. I’m not sure if they’d still cover our house in Norfolk if we bought a policy now. But we had them for 10 years.
I just thought that was an interesting layer to the insurance discussion. Are the companies making blanket statements and generalizations about where to insure homes (“VB = bad. Close to ocean = bad. Norfolk, only on river/Bay OK!”)
Melanie, this was so interesting. Thanks for sharing, and sorry for the headache you experienced. Knowing VB and particularly how bad the flooding is in Norfolk, that is really bonkers. We moved from Norfolk to Richmond in 2022 in part because of the climate risk.
I have a version of this going on. We own two homes that are a mile apart. One is in a high fire danger area and the other is not. It's not absolutely crazy, but it's pretty close to crazy to call it a high fire danger area. And you can't ask questions about it. We also owned the home for 10 years before it got designated that, and when we asked who decides, the answer is essentially "nobody knows." There is no way to appeal the ruling. We have talked to multiple insurance companies. Very few will insure it without FAIR plan. So it's not like one insurance company decided we're risky and the other says no. It seems to be data that all are looking up when the quote us. So far, we've found somebody who will, but I'm afraid the writing's on the wall.
If anyone knows LA and wants to track the details without dramatic commentary the CalFire site can be very helpful.
https://www.fire.ca.gov/incidents It’s a statewide site, so select the particular fire you want to track by name. In particular it shows where fire is and is not, which is a counterpoint to the apocalypse story on the news. This is a terrible, tragic event, and also much of a vibrant city is still here. The CalFire site is a little technical, but it’s accurate
So many thoughts on the fires, housing crisis and development. I am a geologist and work in environmental consulting and have worked with developers on various fronts, mostly contamination, in Arizona. What is frustrating is we have this nexus of housing crisis and fires. Everyone just wants to change zoning and build on vacant land, but that comes with such a price, and it just isn’t feasible. Waiving the environmental laws temporarily doesn’t ultimately fix the problem. It seems if developers would actually build homes to withstand the climate, fire and earthquake, in places like socal it would at least help the problem. Hurricane resistant neighborhoods exist in Florida-I know it can be done for fires as well. It is concerning the idea of rebuilding quickly because that won’t withstand another fire. It never does, because everyone’s memory is so short. There are just so many factors most people have no idea exist. It also bleeds into the thought of owning a home and how we as Americans have made that the “go to” when in so many other places living in a flat within a building is the norm. Maybe the focus should turn to multi family housing that is built to be resilient. Just so many things here to balance with the needs of a community and the realities of our environment.
The next concern is PFAS in firefighting foams-I don’t know if California had already banned it, but with some PFAS constituents now being considered a hazardous substance, that is a whole additional level of cleanup where it applies, and super costly.
My daughter moved to Orange County two years ago and has met several new friends, also in their early 20s, who were born in CA, went to college there, and have never been east of the mississippi - their families would vacation in Hawaii, Asia, and other west coast states and Canada. They have no sense of where many cities on the east coast are relative to each other and how long (or short) the travel is between them. Even though she explained that she lived about 8 miles from
the White House, once they heard she grew up in Virginia they wanted to know how close she lived to farms (answer not close at all!!) All that to say - we could do a much better job promoting the value of traveling around the US to learn more about our own country and the people who live here to take away some of the stigma and fears people have about certain places.
I'm a little late to this since I live in L.A., and it's been a lot this past week. I'm in Burbank, so right inbetween the Eaton and Palisades fires. Did not have to evacuate but have been glued to the Watch Duty app and know people who have lost everything. We've owned our house 20 years, same insurance, never made a claim, and are in the "flats" of the valley (so not in or near the hills), and yet I'm girding myself to hear that my house insurance is cancelled in a year.
I'm also slowly coming to accept that yes, I and my kids are being directly affected by climate change, like so many others in the world, and we have to move. (I have a trans kid and we really, REALLY like it here and don't want to move!) Also, I'm growing increasingly pissed at Boomers -- they had the opportunity to do something about this and didn't. Between our fascist leader and climate change, what kind of world are we leaving our kids?? If anyone has tips for trying to climb out of this existential despair, sincerely, I'd love to hear.
It feels very strange being here in San Diego county, two hours south of Los Angeles and yet a world away from all of the devastation that is happening. We've had red flag warnings because the Santa Anas have been blowing off and on over the past week, but thankfully any fires that have started have been quickly put out.
Yes! I live in San Clemente, where things are normal in a strange and sort of disturbing way! The conditions (dry air and brush) are ripe for fire, but otherwise it’s a quiet winter.
My mom and dad just accidentally met Jose Andres and Eric Ripert a couple of days ago. They were at a restaurant in Grand Cayman and took a picture with them, not knowing that they were anybody at all, was apparently a sort of joke facilitated by Ripert. After the photo was taken, then realized it was Eric Ripert and sent the pic to me. Looked at it for 0.5 seconds and was like, um, also Jose Andres? 😂😂😂
Omg I would die!! My husband is a chef so those two are total celebs to us!! 🤩🤩🤩
I don’t know the solution, but I know every time I get an email or snail mail from my insurance company here in FL, I think “Oh boy. Here it is. The cancellation notice.” Thankfully we’ve been ok so far and have never had a claim. We live in the center of the state and with every storm plenty of neighbors have lost roofs. I have never worried about my physical safety in a hurricane, but I do worry about catastrophic loss of my house.
I've spent a lot of time in Los Angeles and I just want to say I love LA and it's devastating to watch what's happening to the city and to the people.
I just took a new job in development (fundraising) for a major hospital / academic medical center in New England and it’s made me think a lot about charitable giving. The office is on track to raise over half a BILLION dollars this year, mostly from “principal” 9-figure gifts. The ways we identify prospects, negotiate with donors, and incentivize big-ticket giving are wild and have brought up a lot of conflicting thoughts & emotions for me. On the one hand, yes, if you make it possible for us to build a new cancer center that will transform care for a whole region of the country, I think it’s reasonable to make a fuss and put your name on everything and recognize that out of all the places you could have put that money you chose this hospital. On the other hand, the making of that fuss and catering to these donors feels really frivolous, outdated, and misaligned with our values around equity and inclusion.
Clearly a very different angle on giving, but it’s all connected.
We just bought our home in Southern California that is of course deemed to be high fire risk and it was a requirement to have full coverage including fire so most companies were offering a partial plan and then we’d have to do the CA Fair plan. This was my first time hearing of this and was an education. Some companies offered full coverage but for a huge premium. We did finally get relatively lucky and got fully covered by SafeCo for a reasonable price. It was very interesting navigating this. I’m curious if Safeco will keep us on.
Having full coverage, including fire seemed to be a requirement of our mortgage. I wonder what would happen if we were dropped? Would the mortgage company give us some sort of deadline to sign up for the fair plan? Or maybe that was just a requirement to open the mortgage? Goodness. Insurance is so confusing.
I also have Safeco in California. I can tell you that if they decide not to renew they will send you a notice that gives you about 2 months to find a new policy. I'll spare you the whole story, but we got the letter, had to jump through some hoops, and we still have them. I'm in your exact situation where Safeco is the only one willing to cover us.
Good to know!! Very interesting.
I had an issue with my homeowners insurance last year where my plan dropped me and while I was shopping for a new plan there was a communication snafu so the mortgage company bought insurance for the home on my behalf and charged my escrow. When my situation was settled they cancelled the plan and everything was fine, but, as to your question, I suspect that the bank will not let the house be uninsured.
Interesting!! I hope this means that for the homeowners who lost their homes in these fires that have an open mortgage, that the fair plan was implemented. Those that owned it outright may have been out of luck if they didn’t enact the fair plan on their own behalf.
I am an architect and my college thesis was focused on recovery from disaster. It was not long after Katrina, and a large tornado in Kansas. The portion of my research I was really drawn to was the impact on building codes and design. I’ve heard the Great Chicago Fire referenced by people speaking about LA, and I’m really interested in more about that. California has some of the most stringent building codes, and while I don’t know much about them (I’m in Ohio), it seems like fire wasn’t addressed as much as earthquakes or other issues.
There’s a link in the post from the LA times that talks about it. I would love to hear more about that (I live in Florida and…it feels relevant for reasons)
Frivolous questions after this serious episode, but there are a few cheaper tickets available to Cincinnati on Southwest, so I am thinking of buying some for the July event. Will everything be done by Sunday night? Will events be central in Cincinnati, or will attendees need cars?
Yes, everything will be done by Sunday night. We’re finalizing our itinerary and venue. I think we’re going to encourage car pooling and ride shares and such, but…you’ll probably want a car.
Thanks Maggie.
For anyone interested in learning more about fires, the book Fire Weather by John Vaillant is amazing. Its about the 2016 Fort Mac fire in Canada that spread super fast due to the perfect combination of weather and led to the entire city needing to be evacuated with many parts destroyed
1. Maui prioritized getting people housed by changing short term rental laws, giving tax breaks for long term leases and using FEMA funds to build tiny homes. We go there frequently and finally in December saw the results. They also relied heavily on EPA and FEMA teams to clear debris.
Residential has always been prioritized. They are now starting a citizens commission to discuss rebuilding the historic part of Lahaina.
This isn’t a perfect comparison because it was a “relatively” small area.
2. @Sarah when are you going to Paris? We are going the beginning of March for the same reason
We are going to Paris over spring break (mid-March), and I put notre dame at the top of my sightseeing list!
I just have a silly comment. The way that Sarah was advertising the event in Cincinnati, made me laugh because it made me think that it will be in the “Beth Metropolitan Area”.
I felt that too
Here’s my recent experience with homeowners insurance, and how the insurance algorithms are wonky sometimes. In June we moved from Norfolk, VA to Virginia Beach, VA.
Norfolk is considered one of the most at-risk places on the entire east coast for sea level rise as the result of climate change. Most of the city sits at or below sea level. The city has consulted with Dutch engineers to plan for the future. There is a large flood wall downtown, and development has to account for regular tidal flooding. Homeowners have gotten federal money to lift their houses onto risers in more flood-prone areas. Our former house was about 5 minutes from the Chesapeake Bay and I think sat around 3 feet above sea level.
When we moved, our homeowners insurance company (Nationwide) dropped us, because our new house “was too close to the coast” and they are pulling out of Virginia Beach. Our new house is about 30 minutes from either the Chesapeake Bay or Atlantic Ocean. We live near no tidal waterways. Our house is at a higher elevation (but I don’t remember what it is).
So even though this house is FARTHER from the water in general, Nationwide’s algorithm said our house shouldn’t be insured. I’m not sure if they’d still cover our house in Norfolk if we bought a policy now. But we had them for 10 years.
I just thought that was an interesting layer to the insurance discussion. Are the companies making blanket statements and generalizations about where to insure homes (“VB = bad. Close to ocean = bad. Norfolk, only on river/Bay OK!”)
Melanie, this was so interesting. Thanks for sharing, and sorry for the headache you experienced. Knowing VB and particularly how bad the flooding is in Norfolk, that is really bonkers. We moved from Norfolk to Richmond in 2022 in part because of the climate risk.
That’s interesting! We were just south of Ocean View in Norfolk. I grew up in Richmond, Bon Air/south side area!
We lived downtown and got married in Ghent! Now in Glen Allen :)
Ha, I got married at St. Andrew’s in West Ghent! Small world!
I have a version of this going on. We own two homes that are a mile apart. One is in a high fire danger area and the other is not. It's not absolutely crazy, but it's pretty close to crazy to call it a high fire danger area. And you can't ask questions about it. We also owned the home for 10 years before it got designated that, and when we asked who decides, the answer is essentially "nobody knows." There is no way to appeal the ruling. We have talked to multiple insurance companies. Very few will insure it without FAIR plan. So it's not like one insurance company decided we're risky and the other says no. It seems to be data that all are looking up when the quote us. So far, we've found somebody who will, but I'm afraid the writing's on the wall.