116 Comments

Just now listening to this episode. Has anyone read The Opt-Out Family by Erin Loechner? So good.

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Thank you for this wonderful episode. My therapist recently discussed with me how one of the greatest acts of love in relationships is to practice calm and regulating our own emotions in the midst of our loved ones’ emotional storms. Y’all are doing this for us. We are doing it for each other. Thank you 💗

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I listened to this on Monday, several days later, but it was good timing. There have been ICE raids in Texas, specifically in DFW, and I've become really distressed with all of the news stories on top of each other that just point to this administration's focus on kicking out non-citizens, not helping refugees, not providing foreign aid. It just makes me sad and scared. Like Beth and Sarah, I'm a white straight woman with all the privilege of the world. My kids go to a dual language school where 50% of the students speak Spanish first. Students in the junior high (where my son will go this fall) received these red cards that help them have language for when someone from ICE approaches. English and Spanish. Teachers are being pulled into meetings about ICE. It feels VERY real, and not to diminish what actually happened in the 1930s, but it feels very much like the rounding up of Jews period of time. I'm thankful for Beth and Sarah working through their feelings and thoughts. It helps me keep some kind of perspective when it feels like we're already being plunged into chaos.

When you were talking about men, I feel kind of like how people talk about public schools. Like, in general, there seems to be a lot of misogyny and sexism and awful men out there. But the men in my life are not that way for the most part. I have two friends whose husbands are... not great, I'm estranged from both of my brothers for good reasons... but the rest, pretty stellar examples of the gender. My husband is doing his best to raise our 11 year old son to be a good man, and I think a lot about his tender heart as he's approaching junior high. The boys he's friends with still have sweetness, and there's still kindness between the boys and the girls. But this is my first rodeo. I don't know what life will look like for him, and for my daughter. I pray that it's not as dark as what the conversations online look like.

Re: books, this is my favorite thing to talk about. People constantly ask me how I read so many books. 1. I watch almost no TV or movies. I read when I have down time, and in little pockets in the day, such as drying my hair, listen while driving, and before I go to bed. Because I'm always reading, 2. I usually have about 3 books going: A kindle book (always), an audiobook, and usually a hardback book that I read slowly. They have to be different genres, and different enough for me to keep them straight. If there's commonalities I can get them confused. So I might listen to a memoir, read on kindle a thriller, and read on a hardback book something non-fiction. I'm driven to read because I love reading and love getting into a story OR learning something, or both. I don't have a set goal of how many pages or how long I read in a day. I do have an overall number of books I'd like to read in a year, but I average finishing a book in about 5 days, I'd guess. I read 89 books last year. I usually average between 70-80 a year.

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I'm with Sarah, I need to read multiple books at once. Right now I'm reading 10 (more if you count the ones I am not making active progress on).

I was more or less shamed into reading one book at a time when I was younger and it resulted in some of the most anxiety inducing years of my life. I'm a mood reader and the moment I feel like the reading is required I cannot focus on that book. Finally in grad school I realized if I gave myself a choice between assigned reading and fun reading I am much more willing to do the assigned reading. It's weird but it works for me...🤷‍♀️

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I have 13 books on my Goodreads "currently reading" list, but at the moment, I'm actually only actively reading 4. I always have one that I read every night before I go to sleep. The others are usually a mix of nonfiction pertaining to what has caught my attention at the moment, reading challenges, and books my kid is reading for school, if I haven't already read them.

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I used to be able to only read 2 books at a time (fiction/nonfiction). Perhaps I could listen to a 3rd on audio… but now I have 4 going! I honestly don’t think too much about my daily reader, but I love being able to snuggle into a mystery, but sometimes I need something light and fluffy to get through the day. I feel like there is NEVER enough time to read all of the things I want. I love reading long form articles too. Add books to the number of podcasts and other audio I take in… it’s problematic. One new thing I’m doing this year is keeping a notebook to write down new or less familiar words and their pronunciations/definitions.

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Sarah’s comment about deserving a certain outcome because her outrage is so strong— woo boy, I get that. And it is indeed true that that’s what social media is built on.

In terms of things to be outraged/heartbroken about, one of mine is derived from the story that when it came to pardoning the J6 criminals supposedly Trump got bored of careful evaluation halfway through and said, “F*** it, just pardon them all”. Isn’t that exactly how you imagine him “writing” (as if we think he did any actual work) these executive orders? Criminals? F it, kill em all. Non-citizens? F it, deport em all. Biden policies? F it, cancel em all. This pathetically lazy old man has no interest in using the power he has been given except to break everything in sight.

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I really enjoyed this episodes discussion about social media and performative living for social media. It made me think about studying acting theory at The Atlantic in 2021 (bear with me, it’s relevant, I swear). We had a class in Meisner and one of the exercises was to sit in front of the class and allow yourself to be seen and, when you felt the impulse, return to the audience. The purpose was to become aware of the difference between what you wanted the audience to think of your choices and what you yourself wanted to do.

Another part of the training was “practical aesthetics” work. That method of acting asks you to determine (1) what is literally happening, (2) what the character wants, and (3) the “essential action.” The essential action is always focused on the other person in the scene — “to get someone to ___.” For me, this method was eye-opening in life because it made me aware of the ineffective ways I try to achieve my want. If I want people to treat me or others differently, it can’t be about my emotional experience, it has to be about the tactic I use to get that change in the other person (I.e. to get someone to face facts, to get someone to see reason, etc.)

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Yesterday I had lunch with a family member who is a kind and generous person and also leans a lot more conservative than I do and I tend to get all hot and angry when political topics come up and I am really trying to work on that. I don’t know if I did as great as I would hope yesterday but I can see myself getting better thanks to having you all in my ears all the time. (For example, immigration is a topic that can really rile me up quickly but I feel like I did a good job of calmly explaining how I am feeling and how immigration laws work to the best of my understanding).

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I would love to hear how Sarah could just cut down on social media. Social media is like drinking for me. I could never have just one drink. And drinking lived in my head rent free all day long.

I went completely alcohol free for 1-2 years and now for the past six years I have maybe one drink a year. And I’m very cautious about that one.

I can never “have just” a minute or an hour on social media. I always want more. I don’t want to quit cold turkey but nothing else has worked for me to regulate my social media use.

Thoughts?

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This is what I’m trying so far with FB which is the only one I’ve ever had. I deleted the app off my phone so it’s just a tiny bit harder to get to. I also have been trying to Marie Kondo my friends list and unfollow people who don’t spark joy or people I have never known well in real life. Now when I get on I might see a couple posts of interest and the rest is posts I have already seen and garbage I am not interested in so I am hopefully not scrolling for that long. I am guessing it is going to keep getting less interesting as more people get off of it. Good luck!

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Thanks!

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I'll start by saying, I'm a White woman, married to a Cambodian man who was born in the US a few months after his parents were granted refugee status. He loves the UFC and listens to Joe Rogan and Theo Von so by extension, I've watched a lot of UFC and listened to a lot of JR and TV. I agree with Beth's assessment - what Joe Rogan does is interesting, helpful, and sometimes harmful. I agree with Sarah that he's not a douche bag and I've found him to be genuinely curious about ideas and people. But for the past year I have been hostile toward all JR, TV, and UFC because of their openness to, or support of, Trump. Unfortunately, some days this has also translated into hostility toward my husband. He is not a Trump supporter, but he did not share my desire to silence anyone and anything that supports him. Despite years of listening to Sarah & Beth and reading their books, the last thing I've wanted to do for the past year is give air time to people who think differently than me. This is unfortunate because while the policies targeting immigrants and LGBTQ+ people are abhorrent and affect people I love, they do not (at the moment) affect me directly. In other words, I am the kind of person who should be engaging more with folks, not less, but instead have chosen the role of "angry and emotional woman on soapbox #3" instead of "patient woman in thoughtful conversation with 1 of 77 million of her fellow Americans." Ugh. Time for more therapy I guess.

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I haven’t been able to listen to the full episode yet. I have to keep pausing while I pull myself together. I’m a mom of four children, two of which are trans and one of those sons is in college living on campus.

I work at a school that is 20% Hispanic and I come from a community that is over 80% middle eastern.

My husband had a kidney transplant two years ago and is heading towards another. I’m fortunate to have both my parents, but they are aging.

All that to say, I am barely pulling myself out of bed everyday, but I am so so grateful for this community. Reading all of your comments, I feel so supported. Thank you. 💙 we will continue to fight the good fight for as long as we are alive.

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I may very well be in the minority, but I feel like sub stack is the most echo-y chamber of social media platforms. I rarely come across another person or group with a different point of view from mine. All the think pieces in my feed reinforces my thoughts and beliefs, except now I get to pay money to be in this particular social media group. I get it Facebook is bad (seriously every episode now spends at least 7-10 minutes letting us know), but I like having other people point of views even when they are bonkers. I feel like sub stack is full of well meaning white ladies, which is fine but I need to constantly remind myself this is is not representative of America, this is the echo chamber I decided to join.

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Two thoughts on that:

1) you may be automatically following a bunch of substacks that are recommended by whoever got you on the platform the first time, which may feed that echo chamber experience. We have a post about managing your settings that I’m happy to link you to. I’m pretty vicious about who I follow on all the platforms (I also use the inbox feature more than the notes feature) and it can change the experience a lot (also following a few “very different than my usual flavor just for variety” changes the algorithm a lot).

2) what I like the most about Substack as a platform, and I want to emphasize how different this is (because I know that paying $5 - $15 a month for a bunch of creators adds up) but there are no ads, paid posts, boosts or anything like that on Substack, which is SOOOOOO different than the other platforms. I think, at the end of the day, our heightened emotions are going to get more engagement than our calm and reasoned takes because of human nature, but it’s very different to build a platform around revenue sharing with creators than holding people’s attention for longer and longer so they see more ads.

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I definitely see the value of paying for pant suit politics I really like all the extras you offer and prefer them to the regular podcast these days. I have decided that the only political group I am willing to engage with right now is this one. The rest feel too charged and there is zero room for criticism for the democratic party.

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I've been thinking a lot about the attention economy. I decided to uninstall the FB app from my phone. I don't know that it will make any difference except to decrease my anxiety. I guess that's worth it, right?

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Ezra Klein did a recent podcast about attention and it was really good!

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I also did this (I also deleted the news apps from my phone) and I cannot recommend it enough,

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I am not in a good space right now and i think i knew that, but the reactions i felt in my body to todays conversation really was the internal “danger” alarm. It’s the first time in a while I haven’t been able to at least “come around” to a better space by the end of the chat. So, I’m going to have a little break this weekend from *all this*.

Apart from that- and thank you for being my reactivity barometer.

I am usually a multi-book reader, usually 3-5 at a time, but I have started reading classics this year and I’m trying to work on my new gnatlike attention span. I was a deep reader as a child and I have lost a lot of that skill in the last five years. So I’m working on it and it is definitely coming back. But, I’m really “dating” those books, like Beth said. Those are one at a time right now, but I also have a poetry book on hand if I need a different flavor, I have a nonfiction that I can only read during the daytime (because it gets me thinking too much), and I also have a biography on audible at the moment for chores/ treadmill time when I don’t have a podcast to listen to. I usually manage that kind of flow: a fiction, nonfiction, audio book, and then something casual and fun (sometimes even YA or middle grade books) . And that keep me in that 3-5 at a time range.

I can’t wait to see what everyone else has routine.

Currently reading:

Maggie Smith by Michael Coveney (bio of the late dame— it’s not very good, for the record. It’s mostly a recitation of the history of British stage theater)

Poyems by Len Pennie

The Waves by Virginia Wolf

The World Ending Fire by Wendell Berry

And I’m waiting on a copy of my book for the community slow-read.

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I hope you don’t see this because you’re unplugged this weekend. Here is my dark source of comfort:

I had a professor in college who was translated polish poetry written in concentration camps (apparently Polish is a super rich language and capturing the nuance and not losing the multilayered meaning of a poem in the process of translation is a real booger)

Czeslaw Mizlosz comes to mind:

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/49751/campo-dei-fiori

And I think all the time about Victor Frankl’s book Man’s Search for Meaning (might be a good addition to your list if you’ve never read it before) he was a psychologist who was sent to a concentration camp and took note, made observation, and tried to make sense of the horrors he experienced and came to some profound and beautiful insights about the human condition.

Which is just to say, when I sit with the possibility that the worst may happen (I’m a GOOD TIME AT PARTIES) be it disease, disaster, general doom, federal collapse, war - I remember that people for all time have gone through these things. People for all time have survived, made art, had babies, laughed, and carved out moments of joy and light in whatever time and freedom they had.

I think this week is particularly hard because we’re at that point in a roller coaster where we’ve slowly gone up-up-up-up the hill and we’re about to go down and we have an idea of what the ride will be like but we haven’t done it yet. Take care friend!

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Thanks for the great episode! I love your perspective, honestly, and authenticity. I also refuse to stop caring about my community and to keep showing up in ways that I have impact.

I am reading 3 books at once now and am #teamsarah on this one. 📚 They are Nancy Pelosi’s biography, Enchanted April, and Revival by Stephen King. It’s fun reading two very different fiction books at once. I couldn’t do that with more than one murder mystery. I’m enjoying them all and am typically reading 3-5 books at once. 😊

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I think 3 is just the right number of books to read at once.

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