Trump Is On A Bender

Rep. Greg Landsman joins us to talk about the early days of the administration and what Democrats should be doing right now.

We’re inviting elected and political leaders to the whiteboard to reimagine what the next phase of Democratic politics can look like and how we can reshape America for the better. Today, Rep. Greg Landsman joins us to discuss the early actions of the second Trump administration and how he thinks Democrats should be responding.

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Episode Resources

• Greg Landsman (Congress)

• Greg Landsman (@greglandsman) (Instagram)

• The Digital Allure of Being Attended To (You Are Not Your Own Substack)

• The Unhinged Browser Game That Explains How the Internet Went Wrong (The Atlantic)

• F*ck Around and Find Out merch

Show Credits

Pantsuit Politics is hosted by Sarah Stewart Holland and Beth Silvers. The show is produced by Studio D Podcast Production. Alise Napp is our Managing Director and Maggie Penton is our Director of Community Engagement.

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Episode Transcript

Sarah [00:00:07] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.

Beth [00:00:09] This is Beth Silvers. You're listening to Pantsuit Politics. And today we continue to process the political reality in America. We're joined by Representative Greg Landsman, a Democrat from southwest Ohio who was elected to Congress in 2023 after serving on Cincinnati City Council and working as a public school teacher and education advocate. He joins us as part of our continued white board series. We're looking to elected officials and other leaders to help us chart a path forward in a rapidly changing political climate. Representative Landsman was very willing to stand at that whiteboard with us, and we hope that you enjoy his insights.

Sarah [00:00:41] We want to take a moment to express our complete devastation about the plane and helicopter crash in Washington, D.C. As we're recording on Thursday morning, we know we still have an incomplete understanding of what happened, but the scope of the tragedy is clear. And we know that many of you listening are very directly impacted. Our hearts are with the families of everyone who was lost and with all of you who knew and loved people on board, and with everyone who will need to lead through this crisis. We know many federal workers are already having to set aside their own stress and shakiness to mobilize around this crash. And we are grateful for you and your work.

Beth [00:01:20] There's so much happening this week and that is becoming an evergreen statement. So we talk more about the plane crash, about the federal fork in the road emails, the funding freeze and the take back, in our bonus episode on Substack. We have got to figure out a balance of reacting to news and driving the long term conversation forward. So our bonus episodes are going to be packed. And the bonus episode this week is packed.

Sarah [00:01:46] It's long.

Beth [00:01:47] Is over an hour.

Sarah [00:01:48] There's lots of cursing. There's lots of me going urgh!

Beth [00:01:51] Yes, it was very cathartic. I found it helpful. But we need that third episode a week to deal with everything that's rolling out. So we hope that you'll join us on Substack. If you're on the fence about making that investment, you can get a free preview of this episode or begin a trial subscription to see what it's all about. And just a reminder that you can find all things Pantsuit Politics at Pantsuitpoliticsshow.com.

Sarah [00:02:14] Including our merchandise. And at the request of approximately everyone in our audience, we are selling a limited edition for two weeks shirts and stickers that say fuck around and find out is a two way street, so the link for that will be in the show notes.

Beth [00:02:29] Next up, we're focusing on the big picture with Representative Greg Landsman. Representative Landsman, welcome to Pantsuit Politics. We are so thrilled that you're here.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:02:46] Well, thank you for having me. Big fan.

Beth [00:02:49] Thank you. I want to start by asking just how are you? How are you getting information? How are you prioritizing the speed of the world these days?

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:02:59] It's a good question. I think I'm doing fine. And I like to fight, so I got one. And I also like being productive and part of solving problems. And even though it feels unhinged in a lot of what Trump is doing is unhinged, I think of it like a bender. You know what I mean? He's just on this bender, this culture war, identity politics, political grievance bender. And hopefully he sobers up and realizes he's got to work with us. And at that point we'll play a role in trying to make this work, meaning you help as many people as possible and serve as a firewall in terms of the harm that's clearly going to happen if we don't or aren't put in a position to do something. So I'm trying to stay focused on the things that matter most to the district, to me, I think to the country. Well, I'm not getting pulled into the every second, the every hour stuff that he's doing. And I think this is true for like most toxic people.

[00:04:19] Somebody calls it a Trump derangement syndrome, where somebody can get you to glitch. And is that not his superpower? Which is that he does all of this stuff and it has consequences. But the big consequence is that he just gets the people who disagree with them to just glitch and become unhinged, too. And I think it's really important for us not to do that. So you stay focused and do as much good work as you possibly can. You pick your fights. You can't fight them all. Ultimately, you got to emerge as the most responsible, practical and effective person in the mix. You know what I mean? As opposed to just getting pulled into his craziness. If you go back to the bender analogy, it's like if somebody you are working with or a friend of yours is on some sort of bender, you don't join them.

Sarah [00:05:25] Right. I have two questions then. First, what do you feel like is bubbling up? Or is anything yet bubbling up to the level of your constituents- something that they're noticing?

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:05:43] Yeah, a lot of it. What Trump is really good at is getting attention. Pulling focus. And so it's all I think folks are talking about. They're worried about the immigration stuff. They're worried about the diversity and inclusion work that people are doing. They're worried about reproductive freedom. They're worried about what's going to happen with LGBTQ plus communities, individuals, families. I think rightfully they're worried about funding, what's going to happen to grants. And the infrastructure money has started to become an issue last week in a really alarming way. It's touching most people, I think, in terms of things that they weren't already worried about and are now worried about. So on immigration, for example, most Americans want it fixed. They do want border security. It feels like chaos to them, and they want the adults to get together and solve it, create real border security and meaningful immigration reform so that there's structure and order and pathways-- none of which are in good places right now. So they want that.

[00:07:02] What he has done is create more chaos. And there's nothing that he's doing that is really comprehensive or meaningful or going to stick. He has to work with Congress to make something permanent, to actually fix it. So it's really just making people very unnerved. It's making people scared, which I think it's a part of what he's trying to do. The biggest problem for Trump is that it's not fixing the issues that people care about. He has done absolutely nothing on the economy. He had one executive order that literally said the entire federal government, hey, come up with some ideas on how to fix inflation. That's what he did on day one. And in addition to pardoning violent criminals who committed federal crimes on January 6th and released those violent criminals back into our community and a whole host of other political grievance, cultural war nonsense executive orders, he actually increased pharmaceutical prices by rescinding the work that we're doing to lower drug prices through negotiating using our bulk purchasing power with Medicaid and Medicare.

[00:08:34] So I think the fact that he hasn't mentioned the price of eggs, he hasn't mentioned gas, he hasn't mentioned [inaudible], he hasn't mentioned the outrageous costs that we're all dealing with that he has zero interest in working on this. There's no plan to fix the economy. The economy is rigged. It is broken. It's been broken for decades. It overwhelmingly favors the Uber wealthy and the super powerful at the expense of the rest of us. It's getting worse. Zero plan. And I don't think he has any interest in tackling it, and I don't think he has any interest in doing real comprehensive, long lasting border security and immigration reform. Two things that people desperately want.

Sarah [00:09:21] Well, that was my other question. What about the stuff that's not bubbling up that you feel like you will need to be an important part of the firewall? Like the inspector general’s seems like that's really scary step to take, but that's not a word. Those are not two words most people are using in their everyday lives. So how do you shift your communication or connect the dots for people when it's more in the weeds of the way our government works and particularly the interactions between the executive and the legislative branches.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:09:58] All right. So I know you're supposed to answer these questions in three, but I always end up having five. So five things. One is we do a lot of town halls, and I think it's a hugely important thing for members elected to do, which is constantly be in communication with constituents. And we do community conversations, small group discussions, but that is a big piece of it for me because you get a better sense as to what people are thinking about, what they're worried about. You're able to talk to them on a regular basis and build that relationship. So there's this emerging trust, which is good. The second thing is I'm on the Energy and Commerce Committee where we still do a ton of good bipartisan work. And even though there's all of these crazy things happening, I get the benefit of being part of the quiet but critically important work of Congress. And that is where a lot of the-- hopefully not fights, but that's where a lot of the firewall work will happen. Which is that we will pass bipartisan legislation that does create the kinds of protections and supports and investments that the American people have depended on for a long, long time.

[00:11:21] Energy and commerce is one of the committees that really does a lot of the heavy lifting in the United States Congress. It touches almost everything. Health care and tech and the environment, energy, all of these things. The third thing is I took on third and fourth is I've taken on leadership roles in the new Dems Caucus, which is a group of 112, 115 Democrats who are moderate or progressive, but they like doing policy work. They like actually getting in the weeds. I now serve as the chair of communications on the leadership team of new Dems, which allows me to be part of the discussion, part of the push back in a way that I think is helpful and productive. And then I also serve as the Democratic Whip for the Problem Solvers, which is a bipartisan group, 30 Democrats, 30 Republicans- 25-25. It'll get to the 30 again. And when the Republicans don't have the votes to pass something, they have to come to us. At which point we work with Hakeem Jeffries, the minority leader, and others to say, okay, what is this bipartisan path forward? How do you use this opportunity to get something meaningful done to help people bring costs down and provide real relief for folks while also making sure people aren't hurt?

[00:13:00] And then the fifth is we try to do several videos a week where using new media to kind of make the case for or against stuff. And we're trying to sort out, figure out how to do it really well so that there is some education and engagement around these issues. And so when all of a sudden key pieces of government are being messed with, like an inspector general that does the investigations to say something went wrong here, I think the way to frame it and the way we'll tackle it this week is to say everyone wants good government. This is their attempt to get rid of good government. And IG's role is entirely good government. It is has nothing to do with political retribution. It's not even really a fiscal responsible. It is good government. Did everyone do their job the way they were supposed to? Yes or no? That's what the inspector generals do.

Beth [00:14:07] I want to talk about how to balance being in the minority and having to take that reactive posture. Like we have to wait till they figure out that they need us, and then we work to influence as much as we can with simultaneously trying to advance the Democratic Party and its brand so that the next set of elections things can swing the other way and you can be more proactive. I think about the bender. I feel like one thing people like about Trump is that he is comfortable with power. He acts like he has it. He's not afraid to do stuff and break stuff and try things. Often when you talk to really responsible members of Congress or really responsible state and local officials, it feels like you're talking to the most powerful, powerless person on earth. You get a lot of I would really like to do this for you, but my hands are tied. Or here are the ways that I am constrained-- and I love constraints. I get it. I love good government and people acting in the scope of their power, but it's like really frustrating.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:15:10] I know. It's a problem.

Beth [00:15:12] Yeah. So, talk to me about that dynamic. What can you do to not always be in that reactive place and that powerless, powerful place?

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:15:23] There is the reality that-- and I think it's really important for Democrats to appreciate-- we're in the wilderness here. We lost. And I think you get back to a place of winning when you come to terms with the fact that you lost. And even though I don't think there's a mandate for what Trump is saying. And fact based on the polling and what I hear from voters, there's not a mandate for a lot of the policies that he's pursuing. In fact, they're very unpopular. There is a mandate for what you just described, which is if you've got power, go use it. Go do stuff with it. And I do think Democrats have to get into that mindset, which is we have to be the party of change, the anti-establishment crew that understands that the system is broken and that we've got to fix it. So while in the minority, I do think it is important for people just to appreciate that, hey, we lost so we can't keep doing the same thing over and over and over again. So I do think that is an important thing to understand and accept right now.

[00:16:33] And number two, I do think that playing the role of the adult while he's on this bender and he does all this stuff, I do think it is a good strategy-- at least it's the one I'm the most comfortable with. I do think you have to say, look, what he's doing, if there's some good to it, great. Say it. Just be honest with the American people. Don't try to pick every fight and just be against everything. But when there's real issues, you say this is a huge problem. He has control of the government. It's his. He has to fix this. And if he can't fix it, we are going to be there to try to help because we're the adults. We're not going to just be so spiteful and so reactionary that we're just going to let everything burn down because it'll hurt people. And that's not what adults do. That's not what we do. To your point, which is such an important one, when we do get into power, we have to use it. And we have to use it, in my opinion, to fix the system. The system is rigged for the super powerful and the super connected. And the economy is rigged that way. Politics is rigged that way. And so Democrats have to be able to say if we get in power, this is what we would do. If we were in charge, this is what we would do. So that's different than saying, hey, we can't do anything and what they're doing is wrong.

[00:18:04] I think you have to say, (and I've been very vocal about this within the party) look what they're about to do on taxes; where they're going to waste trillions of dollars on these uber wealthy at the expense of the rest of us is so reckless and it's costly and it's going to mess with all of our lives and it's going to make things worse. It's taking more and more wealth and power away from us. The alternative is to pass a tax relief bill that is 100% focused on the people who need tax relief. Working people, middle class folks and small businesses. Every one of those folks who need tax relief because the economy sucks in terms of costs, they're going to get relief. They're going to get help paying their bills. And instead of running up deficits or cutting health care or food assistance or disaster relief, we are going to make sure that the Uber wealthy pay all their taxes. That's an alternative. That's us saying there is a better way, and putting that out there as opposed to just saying there's nothing we could do. Look, you can pass this. And this gets to what the Republicans did in the 90s when they were out of power for a long time with Newt Gingrich's Contract for America laid out. It laid out how they would fix it. And so there are younger members like me that are working on how do you fix it? And starting to build that document to say, no, there is an alternative and it's infinitely better than this.

Sarah [00:19:37] Yeah, because it feels like what America is hungry for is not just that exercise of power, but change. I'm not even sure they want a fix. I think they want change. Dramatic change. And so from the Democratic Party in particular, I'm wondering what the vision is. It's not just this, but a little bit better because I don't think that was working. And we're definitely in the wilderness. Even the Senate they're arguing about the Laken Riley Act. I think that there is an opportunity here. And I'm wondering where you see that bigger vision, because for whatever you want to say about Donald Trump, he has a vision. Now, a lot of it is based on his own retribution, but it's a vision.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:20:20] Yeah, it's a grim. It's a dark one. I sat in that Rotunda listening to that speech, arguably one of the worst political speeches I've ever heard in my entire life. It was so grim and so dark and so unoriginal.

Sarah [00:20:36] It was just boring.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:20:36] It's so poorly written and so poorly delivered. But, yeah, he's got something so--

Sarah [00:20:45] Well, can I interrupt you really quickly? When you say he's got something, it wasn't the Rotunda speech. It's when he went to the arena and he bobs and waves and people feel like he's telling them the truth. He's just off the cuff and he's doing what he-- that's it. That's what I think that's missing from the Democratic Party. There's not a lot of off the cuff authenticity.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:21:05] No, no, no, we have to do off the cuff. We have to do fun. We have to do casual. We have to be normal. We have to tell that we just have to be ourselves. Stop with the prepared speeches. Stop with the I don't know, the structure of democratic or [crosstalk].

Sarah [00:21:22] There's a lot of safeness.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:21:23] Yeah. Don't do that. Talk like a normal person. Just pretend like-- this is why the town halls are so important I think because you get into this rhythm where you're just talking normally.

Sarah [00:21:33] Yeah.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:21:34] I do think it's like he brings a little bit of fun. And I think somebody asked me the other day, what should we learn from Trump? And I was like, one, have fun. Go out there and have some fun. Two, talk as normally as humanly possible. And three have the courage of your convictions and go out there and say, no, I believe this. Period. I just do. Now, don't be an asshole about it. Don't divide people. Don't go break things.

Sarah [00:22:03] Just to break them.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:22:04] Yeah. But the fact of the matter is that for me I think that the party should become the reliable, anti-establishment, anti-elite, anti-status quo party that says the economic and political systems that have been built in this country, the status quo that has existed for decades, has failed us. And you have to upend it. You have to blow it up. And what that means is that you have to fix the tax, you have to completely overhaul the tax system. You have to return competition to the marketplace so that we all have seven, eight, nine, 10 choices as opposed to two or three. And that means that there's going to be an upending of corporate consolidation. You're going to have to blow all that up. And, politically, you're going to have to endure partizan gerrymandering. You're going to have to end voter suppression. You're going to have to get dark money out of politics. We have to be the anti-corruption party that says we're not okay with billions of dollars being used in elections that are untraceable. And I don't take corporate PAC money. I think that is a big part of where we should go as a party to say like, look, there's nothing wrong with these companies. But we don't work for them. And the quickest way to say to the American people we work for you is I don't take corporate PAC money.

Sarah [00:23:38] But do you think it's money or attention? He's not handing out a bunch of money to primary challengers. They deal in attention to me.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:23:46] Trump is a little bit different. The money is a huge factor. It just is. Whoever has the most money does better. Usually he is really good at getting attention outside of paid media. Democrats have to do a better job of that and appreciate that inside every politician is a normal human being. So be that normal human being as opposed to the politician. But I really do agree that, Beth, to your point, people do want fundamental change. They want this thing to-- like it's not working. And the fact is that even though Trump talks a good game about change and he'll put on a good show, the executive orders plus whatever Fox is covering and what they're putting on Twitter, it looks good. It's not actual change. He's not interested in actual change. Actual change is really hard. And that's where we come in. That's where we have to come in.

Beth [00:24:52] I'm really interested in what you're working on in terms of articulating that bigger vision, that new vision because I read all of Project 2025, okay? All 900 pages. And what I was really struck by-- it was not a good use of my one and wild and precious life. I see your face. I get it. But I did want to understand. And I was into the idea of like, yeah, just put it all on paper. Just tell people what you're about.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:25:19] I'm agreeing with you to put it on paper, not the vision of Project 2025. But yes, people want to have something to grab on to. We have not given them something to grab on to in a long time.

Beth [00:25:33] But the other thing that I was struck by is that that project's weird and kind of messy as it is because you can tell it was written by lots of different people who see the world pretty differently. But it really needed a better editor.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:25:50] It was really poorly edited. That was the problem.

Beth [00:25:54] Well, you know what I mean. Like in terms of being a coherent thing that people can rally around.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:25:58] No, I know. I know.

Beth [00:26:00] I just realized reading it, they do have a vision and it extends beyond policy.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:26:06] Yeah. Culture stuff.

Beth [00:26:07] Policy is the train for it. But the vision extends beyond policy. And here's how I kind of want to connect that back to what you're working on. My husband dug up these old photos this morning and we saw ourselves in 2007 with this huge group of other young couples we'd all moved into a neighborhood at the same time. And we're looking at those pictures and we're in the suburbs of Cincinnati in northern Kentucky, a very easy place to have a good life. Of all of these people, four of the couples are still married and only two of the couples live in the same house as they did in 2007.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:26:43] Now you pulled me in? How many couples?

Beth [00:26:47] So there might have been 20 in the picture.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:26:49] So 16 got divorced?

Beth [00:26:52] Yes. And two of us live in the same houses as we did when these pictures were taken. And it just kind of took my breath away to think about even here in my community, my life is uniquely stable. And I think some of what Project 2025 is reaching for is telling people your life isn't as stable as you want it to be. There's just too much out there for everybody. You're being pulled in too many directions. And I don't think that's because kids are experimenting with their pronouns. But that's their answer. And I just want to know what's another answer? What's another vision to put in front of people that says, I get it. This is hard. People are living in a hard way.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:27:33] I think it's a couple of things. Some of it is cultural or culture-based or identity stuff that we have to get into, but a lot of it has to do with our bank accounts. There was a time when hard work was enough in this country, and I think we have to get back to that. And I do think that's part of what we have to sell is people are working really hard and it has to be enough. It has to pay off. And that does mean being really, really aggressive about wages and being really, really aggressive about helping people pay their bills and making sure that we do it in a way that doesn't run up a single dollar and deficit spending because we paid for it, because we had the courage to say to the uber wealthy, you're going to pay all your taxes from here on out. So I do think that's a big piece of it because I don't know about the 16-- it's fascinating to know how many of the 16 couples was it financial?

Sarah [00:28:30] It's never just one thing.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:28:31] It's never just one thing. People are anxious in large part because of how bleak their bank account is. And we see it now because we have the app on our phone. I know my bank account. I know what's in it.

Sarah [00:28:47] Yeah. You're not sitting down to balance your checkbook. You just got to open an app.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:28:51] I see it two or three times a day. And for a lot of families and many times throughout the year, sometimes every month, it's pretty bleak- even for us. And I think that is a big part of what needs to get fixed here. Culturally, people are feeling left out and some of it is that we got pitted against each other. Some of it is that we did it to ourselves. We started turning on each other. And I see that with the gender question. And you saw a lot of men decide either not to vote or to vote for Trump. White men, black men, Hispanic men, younger men. And part of it is because they just feel left out. And this gets at a core of who we are as human beings, which is we want to be included. We want to be seen. We want to be liked; like invite us. And if your party is saying to an entire gender, no, you can come if you want. That's essentially like we're having a party and if you want to stop by, it's your call.

Sarah [00:30:05] You know what, though? Don't you feel like what people were hungry for though-- because I was listening to you talk about the uber wealthy and I was thinking about the appeal of Donald Trump's message. And I'm constantly thinking about that second row of attention merchants right up there at the front. And I'm thinking I feel like what people were hungry for, especially to what you were just speaking about with gender and a lot of things, is dominance. They don't want to be included. They want to be on top.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:30:30] That's for them.

Sarah [00:30:32] Yeah, but I think he speaks to that. Clearly, he's naming something. People want America to be winning. They want to be winning. They don't care if Elon Musk is winning because they want to win, too. Like there's just a dominance that's running through that, that I'm trying to figure out how you critique. It's hard to critique such a strong message like that from a place of strength.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:30:54] Yeah. I mean, look, I believe in American exceptionalism. I want this country to win.

Sarah [00:30:58] But that's not a popular stance inside the Democratic Party right now.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:31:01] No. And I think the idea that anyone would prefer to not win is kind of silly. So when he did at the arena, he said, "I'm going to win for you. We're going to do so much winning. I'm going to win for you." And you're like, yeah, that's good. So I think the party like how about this? Maybe the best way is to articulate it, at least for me, is they have terrible policies that ultimately reinforce the status quo and don't help people and oftentimes hurt people. We have really good policies that will ultimately change the status quo. It probably needs to be more aggressive to upend the status quo. But our language is really off putting. We make people feel bad about themselves and we give people this sense that we're better and there's something wrong with them. And their rhetoric-- or at least his-- is you guys are great.

Sarah [00:32:05] It doesn't matter how bad you are, you're still great.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:32:07] Yeah, you're great and we're going to do great things together. And so I do think that they would benefit from adopting some of our policies and stop being so mean and divisive and come to the realization that they are the status quo party and people are going to realize that. In the course of the next few months. Democrats have to come to terms with the fact that we make people feel shitty about themselves, and that has to stop. We're all in this together and if you want a winning coalition so that you can go do good things and make people's lives better, you have to appreciate that a broad coalition is going to include people that disagree with you or don't look like you, and you have to be nice to them and you have to give them the kind of energy and excitement that would make them want to join your coalition. Otherwise, you're going to keep losing.

Beth [00:33:13] You mentioned your leadership in the Problem Solvers Caucus. I went to the No Labels Conference in early December.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:33:19] Why?

Sarah [00:33:23] But why?

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:33:24] Was it interesting?

Beth [00:33:26] I was interested. I was invited and I was interested, so I wanted to go watch. Well, what I was really struck by while I was there is that I didn't see a lot of moderates on stage. It was like a lot of people who seemed to just want to get stuff done.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:33:42] I see.

Beth [00:33:42] I think what you're saying is the people who are willing to compromise get tagged with centrism, which I'm for centrism--

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:33:50] That's so funny. That's me. My tag is centrist. Whenever somebody quotes me, it's like centrist Democrat Greg Landsman. I'm like, I don't care. But on some things I am. On some things when it comes to fixing or blowing up this economy that's broken, I'm out there. I want to go all in. Anyways, good point.

Beth [00:34:14] Well, I just wanted to ask, one, why don't more members of Congress feel free to just move around? Because that's what I saw too people who felt free to move around, some of them, I think, in a self-interested way because you get a lot of attention if you vote in a surprising way sometimes. So it seems like both to get more stuff done and to elevate your own profile and to make being in Congress worth doing, to just accomplish things, like why else do you want to go do this?

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:34:46] Why leave your family? Right.

Beth [00:34:48] Exactly. I wonder how more freedom can be created for people who serve alongside you.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:34:56] That's such a good question. I think part of it is what is your original disposition? Unfortunately, is your original disposition to get into politics, to get attention, or is it to get work done? I think the majority of us are there to get work done. We want to be part of SOP. Like I measure what I do based on accomplishments. Like how much have I gotten done? And am I in a position to continue to get things done? I have learned over the years that you also have to get attention. And that's the part I'm working on. That doesn't come naturally to me because I don't know. At first I was pretty snotty about it, like look at all these attention grabbers and they're just out there, they're on social media and they're posting all this stuff. And it's like slowly I realized if you want to build a coalition and you want to get people working on the things that you're working on and you want to pull attention away from the people who are extreme and unhelpful and unproductive, you have to do this.

[00:36:05] You have to learn how to grab attention and pull attention. I think the people who are there to get attention aren't really interested in doing a lot of problem solving work, and I don't know how to tackle that in terms of the incentive structure. But I do think that voters do in the end. I know this election notwithstanding. I think in most elections voters do pick the normal person. They pick the person who is known for getting things done. That has been my experience here. In southwest Ohio and doing local politics, when things aren't gerrymandered and it's a fair fight, voters will pick the normal person who is known for getting things done as opposed to the attention seeker. But you do have to learn how to get attention.

Sarah [00:37:01] Yeah. I'm wondering what other areas have you felt a revelation or curious or have been like I see now that I have to change my tactics, particularly around the election? You won. But it was such a tough situation for Democrats. Like you said, we're in the wilderness. What are you looking at either in Congress or in campaigns or in party politics where you're like, I got that wrong. We got to do something different.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:37:28] I think the big one is legacy media versus new media. This is not anything new. Everyone's been talking about this, but there is the big thought exercise I've been doing is this one around the Internet as this planet that we haven't fully explored. And everyone is moving to that planet slowly but surely. And we spend time on it now, but we're all in different parts of it. And I do think that the people who are going to do really well in business and in politics and places where you have to get people's attention and start engaging people is that you're going to have to really explore that planet and understand where everyone is, right? Because everyone is somewhere on the Internet. And what are they doing there? And what kind of discussions are they having there? And how do you show up so that it's authentic and it's meaningful and it's a part of their lives so that they can be part of fixing what's broken?

[00:38:39] That's the big one to me. It's really understanding-- because it's like podcasts and it's YouTube, but it's so much more than that. For example, when I go to the grocery store, I'm going in the grocery store yesterday, obviously, all of those people are in the grocery store but each one of them goes somewhere on the Internet. And that's a big part of their lives. It's a growing part of their lives. And if you don't understand that, you're going to have a hard time in politics because politics is about meeting people and working with them. And it's going to be less-- I still do the town halls and I still try to do as much in person as humanly possible, but we have to do better at showing up in their feeds and showing up in the spaces where they spend a lot of their time, which happened to be online. That's a big one for me.

Beth [00:39:36] I don't disagree with you at all. I also just find that incredibly depressing. And I just want to admit that to you. I read this really interesting essay this morning about the amount of time that men in particular spend on OnlyFans and how a lot of that time--

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:39:57] I want to get to the bottom of that 16 marriage...

Beth [00:40:00] Well, hey, me too.

Sarah [00:40:01] He's still upset. Maybe that's why.

Beth [00:40:03] Let's try to get there. So I was reading about why men spend so much time on OnlyFans, and the writer was putting it alongside this New York Times piece about a married woman who created an AI boyfriend for herself.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:40:15] This is the craziest story.

Beth [00:40:17] It is the craziest story, right? And the writer was saying, look, all of these people are seeking a substitute for the attention and affirmation that they want from living, breathing humans and are not getting. So we're going to the places on this Internet planet because we don't get enough of what we are uniquely suited to provide each other here in the analog planet that we actually inhabit.

Sarah [00:40:45] Don't forget some of the OnlyFans people are now using AI to run the chats that the people on OnlyFans pay top dollar for so that they can chat with their creators.

Beth [00:40:56] And it's easy to do because the need is so predictable. That was the point of this essay I was reading. The boyfriend is easy to create. You listen, you affirm, you don't challenge. You don't get distracted by something else. You're just laser-focused in on saying you matter.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:41:14] And what was really interesting about that story, I thought one of the things was that the husband plot twist was good with it because this robot was meeting a need that he felt like he couldn't or didn't want to meet. And he was like, great. Which is depressing.

Sarah [00:41:30] Yeah, but that's not it, guys. A frictionless human relationship is not a relationship. The friction is what creates the worthwhile nature of the exchange. I also read a statistic this morning. It was like under 30, 60% of men are single, but only 30% of women are single.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:41:52] How does that work?

Sarah [00:41:54] I guess I don't know that well. I guess the women are with other women. I don't know. Boyfriends have more than one girlfriend? I have no idea. But it seems problematic to me. And I read it alongside this new piece from Yair Rosenberg about it's this game. You start with clicking one button and then you get points and then you can get a DVD, and then you click another button and it's like-- it's to mirror the progression of the Internet. And you just have to click more and you get more and you click more and you get more. But the clicking it's so stressful. But it was like as a illustration of the path of the Internet and the fact that we're clicking and we're clicking and we're clicking into the OnlyFans. We're clicking our chats; we're clicking our AI boyfriends and we're not going anywhere. We're not going anywhere.

Beth [00:42:39] And that's why I'm taking us down this weird path where I started talking to a member of Congress about OnlyFans. I apologize that this part was not on your list for today, but I just wonder-- I think you're right. In the short term, yes, everybody's got to do smart digital strategy. But in the long term, isn't it true that we can only do a facsimile of connection online and it's always going to be limited in what it can be? And real change comes from us actually digging into each other in person.

Sarah [00:43:12] Because the first party or the first candidate that stands up and goes, don't you hate this? Aren't we all miserable? I have a solution. That's going to be the paper. That's going to be the Contract for America, the one that's like you hate how your kids are on an iPad all the time? You hate how this makes you feel after being on TikTok for two hours? You hate how online gambling makes you feel after diving in for hours upon hours upon hours? We all hate this, yeah? I got a vision for how to do it different. Because it's a positive version of what Trump does. Trump does, you hate this, right? I'll just fix it without making any sacrifices on your behalf.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:43:48] I do think at the core of all this is the isolation, the disconnect, the fact that we aren't in community with each other as much as possible. And Republicans or at least Trump and Vance, they do this whole thing about, well, we just need to have the families be what they used to be and all that kind of stuff. And I do think that there's a Democratic version of that, which is absolutely family is so important. In fact, it does look different for everybody. But the idea of family really does matter. It absolutely matters. And there isn't just one kind of family, though, right? We don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater and say, well, every family is different. Well, yeah, but it is hugely important in terms of meaning in our life and structure in our life. And then the next layer is friends and community and the people that we can trust in that are there for us and we're there for them. And that is a huge part of human existence. And so, yes, we have to do that and build that and invest in it and call it out and say we need more of that. And I think that we can do that. I think it's just saying, yes, family is huge. It looks different for everybody. And that's great. That's America.

Sarah [00:45:20] Well, and I don't think you even have to get into the family part. I think you can just start with kids. Are you happy with your kids’ relationships on the Internet? Do you think the second row of the inauguration is going to help you with that?

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:45:31] Yeah, but the thing is, with my kids, my kids have their phone. When they're off it, it's when we're all hanging out because we got a solid family. And we live on a street with a bunch of families that are all still there and all the kids are still running around. And my kids come in and out of the house all day because they're up and down the street hanging out with people. And that to me is family or community or whatever it is that we call it. But saying it is hugely important for our health, for our happiness, our safety, and we have to invest in it and in each other. It does not have to be the one sort of version that J.D. Vance and others on the far right believe it is. That works for some families. It doesn't work for everyone. It doesn't work for every community.

[00:46:31] But the idea that being together and having each other's backs and having that be part of our social contract and having that kind of accountability to one another, is a really important thing. And it does pull us off the Internet so that the Internet just becomes a place where we learn more or it's entertainment; it's the good stuff. It's not where we go because we have just this suffocating loneliness. So I started my list of five things that I'm trying to focus on, which was that the town halls was the community building. The community conversations, those are the most important things. But, yeah, you're right. Once somebody gets up there and says we do have to return to or build the kind of family and communities that we all desperately need and it will look differently, but it matters. It absolutely matters. It matters just as much, if not more importantly, than the tax system or oversight or this law or that law.

Sarah [00:47:40] But all that stuff makes that street you described possible. Not a lot of people live on that kind of street. That street is unique now in America, where you can let your kids go and there's friends up the street and you're communicating. I think that's becoming more rare. People want it. And government has a huge role in creating an environment where there are options for kids that aren't the Internet. And it doesn't have to be-- I live on that kind of street. I try, but I still feel like I spend all my time policing my kids Internet usage and keeping them off YouTube because it's addictive and keeping TikTok off their phone and using apps to watch all that stuff. I think there's a role for government to make it so that street is possible, so that connective tissue is possible and so the parents don't feel like it's all on them.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:48:25] One of the most obvious things that I missed on this is Congress has completely shit the bed when it comes to policing the internet. The FCC regulates television and radio and there are rules and there's laws and there's structure and there's accountability and there's less harm and less fraud. The Internet and big tech is the Wild West. They're doing whatever they want. And Congress has done absolutely nothing to fix it.

Sarah [00:49:02] And the Trump administration's not going to. Again, second row. His real cabinet was in the second row. The actual cabinet was behind; Elon and Zuckerberg and all them.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:49:13] And the United States Congress, the rest of us were like 10 rows back.

Sarah [00:49:17] So who has the power? Who has the power in this administration?

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:49:21] That's exactly right. I do think getting setting up the SEC for big tech where this stuff is actually regulated. I mean, part of it is what our kids are consuming and what we're consuming and the misinformation and all this toxic stuff. Part of it is just straight up fraud. For example, you can go by add stuff on cable and you know exactly what you're buying and you get receipts for it. You buy the stuff on their platforms, they could be handing you a fake piece of paper saying, yeah, I know it ran on this and it ran on that and it ran on this. They could just be stealing your money. We have no idea.

Sarah [00:50:02] Yeah.

Beth [00:50:04] I really like that. I think something that Trump stumbled into that's really effective politically because I think he doesn't really understand the how of getting things done or at least didn't the first time. But I do think he's effective. I was listening to his comments in Las Vegas over the weekend and just telling people the result. And the result is all about you. I don't think he really cares about people, but he sounds like he does when he says you are going to keep your tips. You are going to get this. So if Democrats could come out and say, I want for you to be able to buy a house on a street where your kids can run in and out all day because they're playing with the neighbors and we'll worry about the how. But that's the big vision. This is the kind of life that I want for you.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:50:45] I think we're slowly but surely fixing the Democratic Party here. But this is another thing to your point, which is Democrats have a tendency in storytelling. It's pretty basic in terms of good storytelling and how movies, books you have a hero and that hero typically has a guy, people that help that hero. And that hero is facing all these challenges and then the people around them help the hero achieve the goal. And there are people who are there to mess with the hero. Democrats have the tendency to be the hero. They love being the hero, which is like I did this and I'm introducing that and I probably did it 100 times on this podcast. Whereas, the hero is the nurse and the family and the mom and the dad and the kid and the firefighter and the police officer and the etc.. And we are the guides. We are the people who are helping the heroes knock stuff out, make things happen. And if we can get to that place-- because Republicans do it too. Trump doesn't. But a lot of Republicans, they love to be the hero, too. Like, I did this, I did that, or we just did this, we just did that. And Trump does a lot of that hero like there's no greater, more significant human being in the world than Donald Trump to Donald Trump. But there is this lesson in how he does put people at the top in terms of who the hero is. And I think that's a huge shift that we have to make.

Sarah [00:52:24] Well, I think what he does that Democrats could learn from, that I even can't even tell you how he does it so well, but he says, I'm going to fight for you without making people victims. Democrats make people victims. You know what I mean? Like you're the victim. You are being abused. You are being put down by the system.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:52:44] I'm the hero. I'm going to come save you.

Sarah [00:52:44] I'm the hero and you're the victim. And somehow Donald Trump [inaudible] he's going to save you. He's going to fight for you. But you're not a victim. You've just been screwed. They were getting one over on you. People don't want to be victims. People do not want to hear that they're a victim.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:52:59] You're taking their path.

Sarah [00:53:00] And that they're a victim of the system and the system is working against them. I think that's what I've learned over 10 years of the Donald Trump era. It Is people don't want to be victims and I think that's why identity politics with the best of intentions really worked at cross-purposes politically, because people don't want to hear that the deck is stacked against you. And maybe I'll fix it, but maybe just the deck is stacked against you. I think that especially with regards to immigration, I was listening to a podcast where they talked about how-- and I saw this shift in front of my eyes and I didn't recognize it. That over time it went from like a policy problem immigration to undocumented people, including using the terms undocumented people as opposed to legal immigrants became a victimized class.

[00:53:54] And that definitely happened over the course of my life in politics that like that was the shift. It went from a policy problem to the way to fix it, the way to get on the policy priority was to become a victimized class. And so you had to talk everything through the lens of victimization and protected classes. And some of that is our legal system and some of that is the constitutional march of the last several decades. But I think what Donald Trump and the Republican Party have sort of lassoed to their benefit is people don't want that. They don't want to be talked about that way. They don't want to think of their lives that way-- at least a lot of people don't. And I think that's a really dramatic shift that needs to happen inside the Democratic Party.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:54:39] Yeah, completely. And part of that is-- and this is also one of the things that I've been thinking about, I think, to the big thought exercise as opposed to election, which is we-- and I'm saying this as a Democrat, we don't like and we get frustrated when Republicans cater to appease, seem to prioritize the far right. We don't like it. Yet we have such a hard time calling it out when we do it ourselves. And I would say just even starting with the folks that call themselves they're not Democrats, they're self-described socialists, why does our party continue to appease those folks and give them the sort of, yeah, well, we're with you and we're going to fight for you. Or like, no, we hear you and you're making good points. And why are we sort of playing to them when we know it's not going to get us where we want to be, both in terms of policy or winning elections? And I do think that our party has to come to terms with the fact that when they do it and they've allowed the far right to take over because they'd spent so much time placating these folks, do we think we're any different? Like, do we think that we're somehow better?

[00:56:05] And people will say, well, Greg, that's a false equivalency. And I say, sure. Of course. I'm making a larger point, though, about extremism. And extremism is the idea that one can be more dangerous than the other, but also one could be way more off putting than the other. And the folks on the far left-- or let's just call them socialists because they call themselves socialists-- they are so off putting to the voters that I need. They're so off putting to the voters that Kamala Harris needed. They're so off putting to the voters that the 2028 Democratic nominee will need. And yet we continue to say, hey, we want you to be part of the fam. We get you. We see you. We hear you. And it's like, wait, why? What are we doing? They have no interest in the party.

Sarah [00:57:03] Well, I think you have a media environment. You have a media environment. The Fox News empowers the far right. And I think the media and social media empowers the far left a lot of the time.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:57:11] Agreed.

Beth [00:57:13] I wonder if this is also about comfort with power, too. So another thing I keep thinking about is how the Democratic Party wears out its base voter because there's like a training. To be a good Democrat you need to constantly be calling your representative about S.R. 2.57 and make sure they know how important that is to you. And then that becomes a cycle of disappointment because every time you rally the troops; we got to get on march about this. We got to write our representatives about that. We got to raise this much money. We did raise that much money. But then it doesn't get us where we want to be. Then everybody's all down in the dumps and depressed again. And with Trump, I've never heard him say anything other than sending fundraising emails. He wants money forever, always. But he never says like, hey, call your reps and tell them this is important. And I think there's something that makes sense about that because Democrats believe in democracy and want the people to be the hero and have the power. But it's almost too much. It's like there isn't real leadership. There's never a moment when I hear from Democrats, like, we got this, you don't worry about it. I heard what you want. We're going in pursuing it. We got this.

Sarah [00:58:23] He has little soldiers that do that, though. He has the Charlie Kirks of the world that'll tell people go ring them off the hook. Scare them. It doesn't always work, though. I think they tried to do that in the leadership fight with Rick Scott and it didn't work.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:58:35] Beth, you're right. We're constantly asking people to go out there and do all this stuff. And then if they don't there's people on the Internet that call them out. And why didn't you say this and why didn't you pick this fight? I do think what's best is to encourage people to find something that they're really deeply passionate about and be all in and go work that. And again not everyone has to be in every fight. But it's a really good point about--

Sarah [00:59:03] Because every fight can't be about everything. That's the mirror image of that.

Rep. Greg Landsman [00:59:07] But in the end, it also has to be fun. I ran a ballot measure for Cincinnati is the first city in the country (the only city still, unfortunately) to provide two years of quality preschool. We put it on the ballot; took us years to get it on the ballot. But we had so much fun organizing. We went to festivals and we passed out cool stuff and we had these phone conversations. And because it was preschool, we would have these pop-up events where kids got to do all kinds of fun, cool things, and we just engaged people that way. So we did make it fun.

Sarah [00:59:47] But you had an articulated goal. That is missing a lot of the time as opposed to just fight the system, march in the streets to fight. You need a goal. A very articulated legislative goal. That's why some of those abortion referendums pass is clear cut. Vote for this. This is what it means.

Rep. Greg Landsman [01:00:09] Yeah, the ballot measures make a big difference when it's super clear. And it's going to have a huge impact on people's lives.

Sarah [01:00:16] Yeah.

Beth [01:00:16] It's also like the difference between defense and offense, too. Like you were trying to create something, not stop something. That's a different energy.

Rep. Greg Landsman [01:00:23] Well, this is why that we are in the minority, but part of it is like there's two schools of thought. You can sit back and trust history and they're going to hurt themselves and they're going to give them the rope to hang themselves or whatever the language people are using. And Democrats will pick up seats. They party in the minority always picks up seats in the midterms. And it's like, well, that's one strategy. And I think there is value in saying, look, we're not going to fight every single fight. We are going to let them own this. However, the other way to approach it or the second option is to say, look, we're going to call this stuff out. And yes, sure, they're going to make mistakes and they're going to have to own those mistakes, but we're also going to present an alternative. We're going to give the American people something else to be for, not just against this stuff.

Sarah [01:01:17] You can look at them. They were a pretty effective minority for years. You can watch some of their strategies. It's not like we have to recreate the wheel.

Rep. Greg Landsman [01:01:26] No. So there's a few of us younger-- Congress is the only place where someone like me is younger. They few of us younger members are like really fired up about building this alternative vision.

Sarah [01:01:44] Because I don't think we should count on a midterm. They did. I don't think that's a safe bet. Everything's different.

Rep. Greg Landsman [01:01:50] It just feels boring.

Sarah [01:01:52] Yeah, just to sit back and wait?

Rep. Greg Landsman [01:01:56] That's not for me.

Sarah [01:01:57] And also it didn't work last time. We picked up seats. They didn't lose seats last night.

Beth [01:02:02] But it's worse than boring. It's cynical. Because if you tell people in an election the stakes are so high, but after the election, well, what are you going to do? Wait for the next one.

Rep. Greg Landsman [01:02:13] Look, Trump now owns-- I think this is national Republicans because I got all these local Republicans that are so frustrated. But national Republicans, they own all of this. Yesterday at the store, we were limited. My son likes the peeled eggs because he just takes them and throws them in. And we were limited to two bags yesterday. And it was like that's how bad the egg situation is. And it's only going to get worse and he's not going to do anything about it. And so can you say, okay, well, then I guess we'll just go out there and tell everyone I could only get two bags and this is so terrible and let's vote him out. Or you can say, look, this is very bad. And what they're doing is wrong and so on and so forth. This is what we should be doing. This is what you should be fighting for. These are the tangible things that you can say, yeah, I don't like what Trump's doing, but I really like what the Democrats are saying. And we have not said anything really yet, which is okay. Part of an election like this is to spend some time not just listening, but thinking. And I'm doing both. But ultimately putting down on paper something that people can get fired up about.

Beth [01:03:50] We always end with something that is not political. So in the vein of just being normal people, I feel like the only normal question in the area of the country that you and I live in right now is have you tried the Graeter's Skyline chili ice cream?

Rep. Greg Landsman [01:04:03] This is where I'm going next.

Beth [01:04:05] Okay. I'm glad to hear that.

Rep. Greg Landsman [01:04:07] I'm going to do a little video because I think it's really important for people to-- for the country.

Sarah [01:04:15] For those of you who don't live in that area of the country, Graeter’s has made a Skyline chili crossover product with the warm seasoning of the Skyline chili and oyster crackers in ice cream.

Rep. Greg Landsman [01:04:26] Yeah. So what I think people need to understand is why these two things are so important to us. Skyline is just like our core memories. Skyline is just some of our happiest moments as human beings.

Sarah [01:04:40] I don't live in that area of the country and I like Cincinnati chili, for the record.

Rep. Greg Landsman [01:04:44] It's where we go to be with each other. I know that it is going to sound like a commercial for Skyline, but it's where my son and I go when we want to hang out. It's when my daughter and I go when we want to hang out. It's where my dad and I--

Sarah [01:04:56] It's like your Starbucks. It's your third place.

Rep. Greg Landsman [01:04:58] Yes. And we do Starbucks, too. But the Skyline is like we sit there and it's a nice 20 minutes and it's just like the food is so good. Whatever. Graeter's is also just sort of a luxury, but it's one of the things that makes Cincinnati so great. It's that we have the best ice cream or arguably the best ice cream. So the question is, should they have combined these two wonderful iconic brands? And I'm going to go find out. And as a homer and as an obsessed Cincinnatian, I guarantee you I will like it.

Sarah [01:05:32] Okay. That's what I'm going to say. Do you feel like you're going to like it or not?

Beth [01:05:34] I wanted to hear your prediction. That's a bold one.

Rep. Greg Landsman [01:05:37] That's my prediction.

Beth [01:05:38] At another great Cincinnati restaurant in a totally different vein, the best ice cream I've ever had in my life was at Carlo and Johnny. It was like a special feature popcorn ice cream. And it was the best ice cream I ever had. So I'm optimistic about the saltiness and the crunchiness combining with that cinnamon from the chili. But I'm excited to see your video.

Rep. Greg Landsman [01:06:00] By the way, that is what it is. And I think when people think Skyline, they think all the spices. It's really just going to be the cinnamon.

Sarah [01:06:07] If you've never had Cincinnati chili, it's pretty sweet.

Rep. Greg Landsman [01:06:10] Yeah, it's the cinnamon. So it's really going to be cinnamon ice cream with crunchy, salty...

Sarah [01:06:16] Oyster crackers.

Rep. Greg Landsman [01:06:18] Yeah, it's going to be awesome. And I think J.D. Vance said something like, hey, we're going to send it back. What did he say?

Beth [01:06:24] He said we're going to stop this.

Rep. Greg Landsman [01:06:27] No.

Beth [01:06:30] You can't use a Sharpie to get us down here.

Rep. Greg Landsman [01:06:33] Yeah, exactly. Your Sharpies only go so far.

Sarah [01:06:38] Well, thank you so much.

Beth [01:06:39] Representative Landsman, thank you so much. It was great to talk with you.

Sarah [01:06:41] We look forward to hearing your report on the ice cream.

Rep. Greg Landsman [01:06:44] All right. Thank you, guys.

Beth [01:06:49] The jury is in. I have tried the Skyline-Graeter’s collaboration, and so has Representative Landsman, and his review is basically mine as well. So here it is.

Rep. Greg Landsman [01:07:05] Are you ready? Okay, here we go. It's so good. It's genuinely so good. Let me be clear. It's not all the chili spices; it's mostly cinnamon. So this is French pop ice cream with cinnamon and a crunchy, salty oyster cracker kind of thing. This tastes really good. I'm going to eat the whole thing. If you want some, Mr. Vice President, I'm telling you, it is really, really good. I'm going to finish the whole thing. I will bring you as much as you want. I come back to D.C. on Tuesday.

Beth [01:07:38] Thank you so much to Representative Greg Landsman for being with us today. Thank you to all of you for listening. We value your attention very much. We know how valuable it is. Please don't forget to check out our Substack for exclusive access to our premium show for Good Morning and More to Say. We'll be back in your ears with a new episode on Tuesday. Until then, have the best weekend available to you.

[01:07:59] Music Interlude.