Firings, Freezes, and Raids

Discussion post for January 28, 2025

Sarah and Beth process the Executive Orders from the Trump administration, their on-the-ground impact, and what comes next.

Topics Discussed:

• The Shock and Awe of Executive Orders

• Outside of Politics: Games

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Episode Resources:

Pantsuit Politics Resources

• Learn more about Sarah and Beth’s speaking and consulting

• To search past episodes of the main show or our premium content, check out our content archive.

Shock and Awe of Executive Orders

• Ending Illegal Discrimination And Restoring Merit-Based Opportunity (The White House)

• White House Budget Office Orders Pause in All Federal Loans and Grants (The New York Times)

• More to Say About Executive Orders (Pantsuit Politics Premium)

• Howl's Moving Castle (film - Wikipedia)

• Project 2025 Series (More to Say by Pantsuit Politics

• Joe Rogan Experience #2255 - Mark Zuckerberg

• American vs Chinese AI (The Neuron Daily)

Games

• Play mahjong like a pro: Comprehensive guide to rules, suits, melds, and winning hands (USA Today)

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Episode Transcript

Sarah [00:00:07] This is Sarah Stewart Holland.

Beth This is Beth Silvers.

Sarah You're listening to Pantsuit Politics.

Last Friday we spent some time talking about our big picture approach to the second Trump term. Today, we're going to dive in and talk through some of the specifics: the firings, the freezes, the ICE raids, the shock and awe this administration has rained down over the past week. And as always, we'll take an exhale at the end of the episode and talk about what's on our mind Outside of Politics, which for me is ol' Mahjong all the time.

Beth [00:00:33] If you and your community are struggling with tackling this new reality, we'd love to come help you. One of our favorite things we do is public speaking and consulting. We come to communities of all kinds to help groups navigate hard conversations. We've helped college deans work through intergenerational challenges with today's students. We've helped recruiters navigate conflicting expectations as work policies shifted post-pandemic. We love these conversations, and we'd love to help your group navigate whatever conflict it's facing right now. You can find more info about our speaking linked in our show notes or email us at Hello@pantsuitpoliticsshow.com.

Sarah [00:01:05] Next up, let's talk about the shock and awe. Beth, as we are recording on Tuesday morning, January 28th, the White House Budget Office released a little memo yesterday that it was pausing all grants, loans and other federal financial assistance. Not a long memo. Lots of confusion because it did carve out an exception for assistance received directly by individuals as well as Medicare and Social Security benefits. There's also some legal gray zone here. They even put in the memo that agency should carry out the pause only to the extent permissible under applicable law. Congress and specifically congressional Democrats have some thoughts on that. But it is a massive amount of money caught up in this three page memo in a way that almost no one understands the impact of.

Beth [00:02:12] Yeah, I was thinking as you're speaking potentially, because everything I've read has said, we just don't know. We don't understand how this is going to roll out. I'm not sure that anyone working in the administration understands how this is going to roll out. Last week I made an episode of More to Say about the first executive orders that rolled out under the Trump administration. And I said, I am not shocked or awed because this is the Project 2025 playbook. It just has mixed in with it a lot of Trump's personal grievance, all of which he telegraphed on the campaign trail. And it's done a little less thoughtfully and a little more bluntly. And that, to me, is just what I keep returning to. I have to remember that Trump is showrunning as much as he is presidenting. So what I'm really trying to find-- and some of this just requires waiting-- are deeply reported pieces about how this practically rolls out. With the immigration raids, for example, I'm trying to find pieces that say these are the numbers today versus what they looked like a few weeks ago. To just understand what part of this is about sending a message and creating all this fear and creating all these reactions versus making actual change. I understand why people are freaked out about this, though, because the potential is extraordinary.

Sarah [00:03:29] Well, and it follows several other efforts to just stop the government. There's a freeze on all hiring. There is shuttering of DEI offices and programs across the government. There is directions, for example, on public health officials to cease all communications, to cease all social media posts. There's directives to have federal agencies identify and investigate places that are ignoring these orders. There's a Studio Ghibli movie called Howl's Moving Castle. And the moving castle is exactly what it sounds like. It's a moving castle in the sky. And it's huge, and it's lumbering, and it can float and it can sprout legs and move. And there's all these pieces. And in my mind that's the federal government, and what they're doing is just stopping it. But in the animation when it starts back up, things fall off again. It's not an easy thing to stop and start. And this feels a lot like Elon. Like I don't care what we break in the process; shut it all down. I don't care what it cost; shut it all down.

[00:04:49] And this isn't a corporation. This is the federal government. This affects trillions of dollars, millions of people, communities all over the country. I don't think they know how difficult it is to get that moving castle back into the sky. Potential or not there's going to be consequences for this. There is a part of me that thinks, well, fine. This is what people wanted. They hate the government. They want to change. They didn't care what got broken in the process. This is what they articulated. So there's a part of me that's like, well, elections have consequences and so we're going to see. There's another part of me that thinks this is-- good is not the word. But I want people to understand the role the federal government plays in their life better. And that's what this is going to do. That's one consequence of this. It's like you're going to see it. You're going to see how it seamlessly operated in your life because it's going to cease to seamlessly operate in your life.

Beth [00:06:12] It's almost hard to describe because it's like shut down the government except the parts that we like and really ramp those up. My husband and I were talking about a social media post he saw the other day, and it was a Trump supporter, very upset about his wife losing an offer that she had for a job in government. And I think a lot of people have walked around thinking he doesn't mean me in a variety of contexts. But he doesn't mean much. He has surrounded himself with people who are very serious about stopping the inertia of the federal government. That's a lot of what Project 2025 is about, and a lot of the lessons learned from the first Trump administration. That the federal government is big and powerful and an object in motion stays in motion unless acted on by an outside force. And they decided to come in and be that outside force.

[00:07:13] And I understand that because I get that any change making requires real disruption and sometimes requires pause and evaluation. It is difficult for me to believe that anyone, even the most skilled business leaders in the world, could do meaningful change at this pace and scale. And I think that what they're going to end up doing, especially with this order on freezing funds that could be in any way related to DEI or the Green New Deal is just going to be the definition of arbitrary and capricious. It is going to be whose lobbyists are most effective, what powerful governors they get calls from. It is going to end up, I think, being a real patchwork of orders that stay tied up in the courts for years. But in the meantime, yeah, a lot of people are going to lose their jobs. A lot of programs are going to be scrambling for funding. A lot of the organizations that would typically come in to fill the gaps won't be able to because they will have lost giant pieces of their funding. And I'm not sure what people expect to happen in the wake of that.

Sarah [00:08:26] Yeah, I don't even think the project 2025 people knew. Just because you wrote it all down in a big book and that you wanted to slow down the inertia of the federal government, does it mean that you fully understood how this is going to play out? I keep thinking about this. I don't even remember where I read it. The person was talking about like the issue with the emphasis on expertise is that the expert is only an expert in their field. They don't understand other people's fields. There's not a broad swath of knowledge to see how this interplay and play out and what this means for another area. You spoke a lot about Project 2025, that it was very piecemeal and differing levels of expertise within each piece of the project, right? And, look, that is a criticism of the federal government itself. That it is so big and it is full of so many experts and that there is not that integration that leads to productivity and efficiency and innovation. That's Elon Musk's critique. Some of that is fair. But this isn't a corporation. This is the foundation upon which our society is structured. It's the parts. And a lot of those parts are human beings.

[00:10:02] And it's not just the freezing, but it's this roughshod firing at the State Department of the prosecutors who worked on the investigation of Trump, of the inspector generals. You don't get that expertise back. If people decide to leave or they're fired or they're ICE'd out, you can't undo that easily- if at all. They're gone. They're gone. Their expertise is gone. What level of integration you had within the agencies, you can't make that up overnight. You can't make that up by hiring loyalist. This vision of government is not a better, more efficient government. It's a government where the power is centralized with Donald Trump budgeting power, hiring power, all of it. How is that going to work? What's the vision there? He's 78 years old. Everybody got their hair on fire about him joking about running for a third term. Dude, go for it. If you guys think you have the votes and the power to change the Constitution, to run an 82 year old for a third term, go for it. Fine. Let's see you try. That's about where I'm at with all this.

Beth [00:11:19] It's also just illegal. Congress has the power of the purse. So you have to change the Constitution if you want government to operate this way, too. And I don't think the House is going to do anything. There was a description of Mike Johnson's day in The New York Times as not acting like a co-equal government partner, but acting like Trump's assistant. And so I don't think that House Republicans are going to be able to work here, but maybe Senate Republicans will and maybe after some time, everybody will. I'm encouraged that Governor DeSantis is starting to meet some legislative resistance in Florida after six years of not having met any of that resistance. These programs that he is pausing indefinitely or perhaps shutting down because they don't align with his agenda-- their words, not mine. That's what they're saying. These programs have to be evaluated to see if they align with President Trump's agenda.

Sarah [00:12:12] While crowing about censorship. That's my favorite part of the whole thing.

Beth [00:12:17] It's all projection. But those are programs authorized by law. And so this is lawlessness by the executive. And they're firing a lot of awfully good lawyers who are now going to be motivated and available to take the government on in court. And so we'll see what happens next. But it's all going to be extremely expensive against the backdrop of an administration whose economic policy seems to be we will take in no money from Americans and we will spend all the money on the military deporting people, on buying up other countries, on doing absolutely whatever we feel like doing in the bureaucracy. Doesn't seem like a winning formula to me in terms of the math, but I will wait and see what happens. Perhaps I will be proven wrong.

Sarah [00:13:08] Yeah, the math doesn't math. We're not going to tax tips, overtime, Social Security. We're also going to drop the corporate tax rate. But we're going to increase spending, not in the military, definitely not touch other levels of mandatory spending like entitlement programs like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security. And somehow we're going to fix the deficit? Give me a freakin break. And he doesn't care about the specifics of navigating this through Congress. They're all at the Trump property in South Florida, the House Republican caucus. And he's like, "I don't care if it's one bill or two bill." Well, then he just opened up another fight. He doesn't care. I sincerely believe him. But it does matter to Mike Johnson. Maybe it doesn't matter to Mike Johnson. Mike Johnson is advocating for one bill. When you say I don't care, you release the infighting. And majority is going to be like two people. They're supposed to get through a budget resolution by February, what, 27th? And then an actual reconciliation package across, what, 12 levels of spending by April? Give me a break. What is this? This is what America voted for. I want change in the federal government. I'll take little chaos. Well, baby, you're going to get it. Here it comes. Here it comes.

Beth [00:14:35] Yeah. I think it was Matt Iglesias that I saw posting like, well, the price of eggs is climbing. Stock market is freaked out because of Chinese AI. And I'm just really curious what Donald Trump is going to do about it, because this is not what we were promised.

Sarah [00:14:52] Yeah, we're not winning. Look, I did what I said I was going to do. I started listening to Joe Rogan. I started Mark Zuckerberg on Joe Rogan. I'm not all the way through. I'm probably like an hour in because they're all three hours long. It's illuminating. Let me tell you that. Because again it's the articulation of they wronged me. They wronged me. They wronged me. Mark Zuckerberg's version of the world is that America didn't stand up for American tech companies and that's why European companies lobbied all these fines and really they could never have content moderated all these people. It was an impossible task and we're just trying our best. We're just here to connect people. It was such bullshit. I was almost shocked, but not really. There was no mention of teenagers and all that came out around Facebook's treatment and Instagram's treatment of teenage users and children users. No mention of mental health challenges that they clearly knew about. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing about like monopolizing the market.

[00:16:13] They yelled at us for taking down stuff about Covid and didn't stick up for us so Europe find us and Donald Trump just wants us to win. It was outrageous. But it's almost helpful. It's helpful to see it through his vision because he's clearly adopted the Trumpian vision, as has Joe Rogan. Like Donald Trump would have won if they didn't take down-- he said this, Beth, without any irony- Joe Rogan. People think that if they had sent out the stories about Hunter's laptop-- which they should have done, I agree they should not have shut that down. Then Trump might have won. That's the government interfering with an election without irony, without acknowledging January 6th at all. It's just it is like being in the upside down. You know what? No, it's not confusing. It's just ignorant.

Beth [00:17:03] Here's the thing with Hunter Biden's laptop.

Sarah [00:17:07] I wish everybody can see your face.

Beth [00:17:09] Those are private companies. But, yes, received pressure from the government. But if they believed that free speech was on the line the way they say they do now, they certainly had the resources to challenge that. They certainly could have said, no, we're going to let it be posted and do what you're going to do government, and we'll do what we do in response. Yes, the federal government is big and its tentacles are everywhere and sometimes that has enormously bad impacts and sometimes it has strikingly good impacts. And that's the problem with behaving in such a blunt way because you don't know which is which. And now we're all arguing about truly one of the dumbest things we could possibly be arguing about.

[00:18:00] The fact that we are still talking about Hunter Biden's laptops, even in the scope of Hunter Bideness, if you put a list together of all the problems around Hunter Biden, the laptop does not rise anywhere close to the top. This is a stupid thing to be arguing about. It is manipulative. There are so many strains of stories right now that are put out there for this exact purpose for people to make three hour podcast about to advance whatever their point of view is, and to keep everybody stuck to that thing, missing the things that keep moving by. And I just want out of that loop. So, again, I'm just really struggling with what is signal and what's noise in all of these actions. It jumped out at me that Reuters reported on Dr. Phil embedding with ICE in Chicago.

Sarah [00:18:53] Lots of people did.

Beth [00:18:56] And I struggle with whether that is a stupid thing to give my attention to and whether it is meant to distract and divide and to be the thing that we're talking about instead of the real things, or if that is a sign of how much of this is about theatrics. I was reading this morning about the administration making very clear to all of the agents involved in any of these operations that they need to have their raid jackets on with the insignia of their agency very visible in case they are recorded by media. They want to look big and scary and tough. We're coming for you whether you're at the hospital or at school or at church. There's no place to hide from us. And I hate that message. But, again, that's what people voted for. And I cannot yet figure out how much of that is going to translate into actions that would not have otherwise been taken at some point and in some way by the government.

Sarah [00:19:55] Don't worry. It's not just Hunter Biden's laptop. They're also still very upset about Covid vaccines and being shut down about memes about Covid vaccines. Again, there is enough truth in there. I'm not all the way disagreeing with that. The Biden administration went too far in trying to shut down Covid misinformation, okay? I'm not. But the ability of this administration and its allies, particularly in the media and in tech, to say we were censored by the government. Instead of working on the processes so that doesn't happen again, we're just going to censor for what we care about now. Now we're going to censor about DEI. That's what we are going to censor about. It's not the censorship. It's that you censored my sub meme, so I'm just going to censor you. I'm struggling now with forget the signal and the noise. It's all signal and noise because it's all just strength, dominance. The reporting that there was no diplomatic meetings, there was no situation room meetings with this interaction with Colombia about the deportation of the immigrant. Anonymous sources were quoted from the Trump administration, and the quote was fuck around and find out. That's what they're doing.

[00:21:19] There's no vision. Even the vision they claim was there to put tariffs day one. The tariffs are just another tool to move with this fuck around. We'll force you to investigate people. We'll force you; we'll take your money away. Even the way he's talking about I don't care if it's one bill or two bill it's because he's not thinking into the future at all. It's today what do I want to do? It's today how can I seem big and powerful? How can I make America seem big and powerful? It's all about the name on the side of the building and ignoring bills you have to pay and stomping around with your big golden sneakers and making everybody afraid of you. So how do you sort signal and noise when it's just being a thug? This is the strategy. The strategy is to just be intimidating. To what end? There is no end in mind. Well, as long as the end is the rich get richer and the powerful get more powerful. But other than that, who cares? I don't think there is signal or noise. I think it's just be a thug.

Beth [00:22:41] I think that's true about Trump himself. I don't think that's true, perhaps, I don't know yet, about the Trump administration and the ways that all of this roll out. Because that is certainly where it begins. And the message I think that he wants everybody to receive is like governance is easy. Why did Democrats blow this so bad? All this is simple. I want the criminals to go back to Colombia and I want Colombia to take them. And they say no and I tell them, well, then you're going to pay up. And then they say yes and now they're so nice to me. And actually I really like their president and we get along great. We had a lovely meeting. He just wants everybody to be like, this is easy. The revolution of common sense is really good branding because that is what people want to hear. They're tired of hearing how complicated everything is. And I'm tired of hearing about how complicated everything is. I'm tired of saying how complicated everything is. I am tired in organizations that I'm involved in sitting in meetings where we're like this is so complicated. It's so hard to make anything happen. So I get why some of this is popular. I really do.

[00:23:44] But that ethos will run up against the fact that it all actually is very complicated. When you talk about federal workers, federal bureaucrats, you know one. You're not just talking about nameless, faceless people to you in Washington, D.C. Those people have names and faces and families and you'd probably really like them if you knew them, too. But it will reach your community. You cannot forever think of all of this in the abstract. These orders and memos and pronouncements are nonspecific because the governing mindset is in the abstract, but it is going to meet reality at some point. And that's where I'm looking for what is just big, bad, domineering theater and what actually has an impact on the ground in either a positive or negative way. I understand it will not all be bad. And I understand I've been trying to really think about this with the immigration orders. I understand that on some level deporting people who are here illegally is not immoral. Reasonable people can disagree about that. So I'm trying to be as neutral as I can while looking at all of this and thinking that it is being carried out in the clumsiest and most thuggish way possible.

Sarah [00:25:10] Yeah, it reminds me of Wolf Hall, which I'm reading right now. When you had an actual king, King Henry the eighth, the kingiest of kings, the full vision of probably Donald Trump deep in his heart would like to be like and he couldn't even get with the lady he wanted to get with. He did eventually, but it still didn't go his way. I'm trying to remember that for myself. People are not going to learn the lessons I want them to learn from this. Now, I think the middle of the country who decided let's try I want change is going to be like no. But that doesn't mean they're going to be like I should go back to voting Democrat all the time because they were the best at this. That's what I want to happen that never happens. But I do think people are going to be like this is not what I meant. I don't know why they couldn't see this coming. But to release criminals from January 6th, one of which has already been killed by the police for resisting arrest while crowing about criminals from other countries... Look, that's not even as simple as he makes it. Some victims of crimes don't want the murderer of their loved one deported to another country where they don't know what's going to happen with them. They want them to go to jail. So that's not even as common sense as people make it out to be.

[00:26:29] It's so intoxicating you can tell. Our local judge executive-- I'm so hot about this even though I don't even know why-- he posted this stupid thing about how Martin Luther King wouldn't like DEI. Whatever. It was dumb. But we can debate equity versus equality. Fine. We want to have that? I'm willing to have that debate about the DEI officers. I'm willing to discuss what gets us closer to what Americans have as a vision for inclusion. I have a dream vision of Martin Luther King. I'm happy and willing to have that debate, okay? But then he gets into it with the NAACP and they call for his removal. And this man who used to be a judge who in theory I believe has a law degree, stands up and says they're violating my freedom of speech. Same as Mark Zuckerberg, Like, shut up. Congress shall make no law. Facebook is not Congress. Somebody on Facebook is not Congress.

[00:27:37] Like this is not what that means. And it's spreading like a virus, this version of discrimination and free speech. And it's like you just slap common sense on it. And while I'm a common sense person, it doesn't matter if what I'm saying makes actually no sense under the structure in which our society has been built. And I actually think Deep Sick is a good lesson here for him if he'll take it-- he won't. He's supposed to take stock market feedback that really helps him learn. But this version of strength, this version of roll out, spend the most money, get the best chips, get the most energy that artificial intelligence through the lens of this magnificent seven that our whole entire freaking economy is built on in the second row of the inauguration is not it. That's not it, right? This version of strength that is the biggest, the best, the most money just got its ass handed to it by a Chinese company. Now, do I believe they actually spent $6 million? I do not.

Beth [00:28:40] Absolutely not.

Sarah [00:28:41] No, I don't. But I think that the open source nature of it and the fact that they spent less with shitty chips, that goes to show you it doesn't work all the time. That is not the version of power. And achieving some long term vision you don't even have, it's not winning. That's not always the recipe for winning. Not always. Not every time.

Beth [00:29:08] I was thinking about this common sense notion with respect to the transgender orders that are coming out. So on day one, Trump tells us that the government no longer recognizes any gender but male and female. And they're going to recognize that based on the sex assigned at birth and we're not going to spend any money in any federal context on gender affirming medical care. We don't even recognize that that exists. They used lots of different words to describe it because none of that exist anymore. Okay, well, then why the need to take steps toward banning transgender service in the military? If a person is told by their government we decide what sex you are, we don't care what gender you think you are or how that presents for you, we won't recognize you as anything but what we recognize you as, and we won't pay for any medical care connected to how you identify, and that person still says cool I would still like to serve my country and I'm willing to die for my country; I don't know why I would say no.

[00:30:16] Why would you say no to someone who says under all these circumstances, I still want to show up for my country and fight this way? And by the way, you're having a really hard time recruiting people who want to do this. So where does the common sense line up? What are we really trying to do here? I don't hear in my physical off the Internet life a lot of willingness to have those kinds of challenging conversations right now because the posture is dominance. I think the people who align themselves politically with Donald Trump, even in the most tenuous way, maybe they don't even have a red hat. Maybe he would never spend five seconds with them in any context. But even in the most tenuous way, I read those people right now as feeling themselves and this culture so much that they wouldn't wrestle with a question like that. I hope that as things settle, we can wrestle with some questions like that because there are a lot of them. Right now the way these orders are drafted, DEI is in the eye of the beholder.

[00:31:26] I guarantee that there are programs somewhere under the banner of DEI that from a common sense perspective, almost everyone would agree should continue. And we're going to have to get to that wrestling soon. I don't know how long this machismo thing that is happening right now is going to last. I am also willing to sit at the table and discuss things that are challenging with anyone about anything that makes our society a little bit better and a little bit more democratic even when that means that my perspective loses. Because I believe in a free and democratic society and I believe in the importance of building consensus in the United States. And I believe we can do this. I got kind of fired up this morning. We got a lovely email from a Canadian listener. Well intentioned. I appreciated it. I'm not mad about it at all and I don't want it to come across that way. But it also kind of fired me up because it was sort of like we don't want anything to do with America. America sucks right now. And I thought, we don't. I still really believe in what it is that we're trying to do here. And I'm willing to do it even with people who have views that I find reprehensible. We can't do anything if all we do is win, win, win, no matter what.

Sarah [00:32:42] Yeah, that's what bothers me. It's like the people within a seat of power. That's what upset me so much about the judge executive. I'm like, you're the government, and you're accusing an organization of restricting your free speech. I'm sure he'll be on WPST tomorrow talking about how I was violating his free speech by going on my podcast and criticizing a member of my local government. What the heck! But that's the common sense. The common sense is might makes right. I don't care what the law says. I don't care what the Constitution says. And might makes right even when I'm the victim because I'm Mark Zuckerberg and I can go on Joe Rogan for three hours where no one will question and say, "Wait, that doesn't sound right." Because let me tell you something, never listened to Joe Rogan before. He asks the word clearly to do a lot of work. Obviously, clearly. Well, no, Joe. Not clearly. Not obviously. What does that mean to you? It's not a magic word. When you say it doesn't make it true.

[00:33:35] There's no analysis. There is no critical thinking. When you go to might makes right, critical thinking leaves the building and that is clear from one firing to the rest of these phrases. There's no critical thinking. There's no vision for the future and there's no critical thinking. It is we will go in; we will be the strongest, and that will make us win. And, look, I will eat crow that has worked for Donald Trump in lots of circumstances, including electorally, including and completely dominating the Republican Party. But if he didn't learn the first time, which he clearly didn't, he thinks the reason he didn't win, win, win the first time is because the federal government got in his way. Well, let's find out if that's true. I guess we're going to see. So I hope this erases the idea that you or I are optimistic about this situation. Just because we're trying to keep ourselves grounded, doesn't mean that we can't fully survey the chaos and mess that has already begun and will continue to play out through this administration.

Beth [00:34:50] Yeah, look, a lot of people listen when we say people wanted this and are saying, "Not me," back to their speakers and not us either. I voted for Kamala Harris because she said we're not going back, but we are. In a lot of respects, we are going to go back. We're going to go back scientifically and medically. We're going to go back culturally. We're going to go back in a number of ways. I still believe we have the opportunity to go forward from there. And I am not giving up in any respect in any aspect of my life. There are some places where I am itching for a fight right now. So I just want to keep feeling alert and present, clear, motivated. I see already the damage. I know people who have lost a job that they were supposed to start soon, who are at risk of losing a job, who are struggling with return to work policies and what those mean for them. People who are going to have to make impossible decisions about what their duties require. It is tough out there right now and it's going to get tougher. And that all layers on. This is government disruption layered on, too. Everybody's sick. There are people going through divorces. Life is still happening. And then this kind of chaos enters the chat and the reality. I am willing to stay present with that and take care of myself enough to stay present with it for the next four years. That's all I'm trying to do.

Sarah [00:36:19] Because I will say this. To the itching for a fight in the strength of it all, I'm not inspired by any of this, but I'm also not afraid or despondent. Because I don't do my best fighting from a place of fear or despair. And I will not allow this administration to push me there because then I miss things. Then I'm fighting fights they want me fight instead of the ones that really matter. And so that's what I mean. I think that's where you're coming from, too. We're just being clear-eyed. We will not be clouded the way they want us to be clouded by fear and reactivity and despair. Even if there are reasons to be afraid or despair. I'm not go in there with.

Beth [00:37:16] Fuck around and find out is a two way street.

Sarah [00:37:18] There we go.

[00:37:18] Music Interlude.

Sarah [00:37:27] Beth, my entire personality is Mahjong right now.

Beth [00:37:30] I like that for you. I love games. You know I love games.

Sarah [00:37:33] I know. And I really want you to play it. I need you to get a set please.

Beth [00:37:38] I'd be happy to.

Sarah [00:37:38] Immediately.

Beth [00:37:39] I love a new game. Yes, I'm in.

Sarah [00:37:41] It's not a new game. That's the best part. It's thousands of years old.

Beth [00:37:44] New to me.

Sarah [00:37:45] You know what I mean? But it feels special.

Beth [00:37:47] Yes.

Sarah [00:37:48] To be playing a game that people have been playing for thousands of years.

Beth [00:37:52] That's how I felt about Cribbage last year. I feel like we had this conversation.

Sarah [00:37:55] Yeah, it feels good. I like the revolution in gaming. I like all these new games. But also I do think some of them you play them a couple of times and you're like, okay, I did it. I did the thing. Okay. So my friend Kisa [sp] learned to play because it's huge in Texas. Her family's from Texas. And then she posted on Facebook they want to play. And so I invited out my friends, Diana and Renal [sp], and I was like, let's do it. And so, y'all, we have been playing like once or twice a week. Like we're in it. If you've ever played Phase 10-- have you ever played Phase 10?

Beth [00:38:29] I have.

Sarah [00:38:29] Okay, it's like Phase 10 adjacent. It's like if you had a 1000 faces to pick from every hand and you just had to, like, decide. But it's like a similar-- like, you got to decide what you're doing. You got to commit; you're weighing your options. You know what I'm saying? You know that part of Phase 10 there's also like you can swap out wilds, that kind of situation. But it's so tactile with the tiles. The tiles are better than cards because you click them, you're collecting them, and there's all this sensation to it. I'm telling you, it's the best.

Beth [00:39:05] I've noticed that with games lately in my house. I love cards. I looove cards. But I also am just really enjoying games where you're just moving pieces around the board because so many games that have come out recently in that explosion of games are Apples to Apples just another version.

Sarah [00:39:24] Yes, that is true. Y'all, we've done it. Let's move on. I totally agree with that.

Beth [00:39:31] They're fun, but enough. You keep buying the same little set and it's just cards and you're just picking them and saying what's funny and okay. So I like the games where I'm touching things and there are multiple pieces and parts. And some games are beautiful. I forget the artistry in some games. So, yeah, I'm excited to learn and try this. Sounds fun.

Sarah [00:39:53] Yeah I can't wait for you to do it. Listen, I want to advise you to take it easy on the rules at first. I'm not doing or we're not doing any points. I think there's points. I know there's points. I have no idea how they work. We're not doing any of that yet.

Beth [00:40:06] Okay, so you're just getting it like a step at a time here?

Sarah [00:40:10] Yeah, we're just taking it real easy at first. I also would like to advise you not to start looking at the fancy tiles ads.

Beth [00:40:20] Tempting.

Sarah [00:40:21] Because they're so fun. They're so tempting. Kisa [sp] was like it's just like another thing to shop and buy. And I'm like it's so true. Listen, because that is fun.

Beth [00:40:31] It is fun. That's why we have a problem.

Sarah [00:40:33] That's why we have a problem.

Beth [00:40:34] We don't have a problem because it's boring.

Sarah [00:40:36] That's exactly right. And they're all like small businesses, which is also really lovely. You know what I mean? They're all out there making the product and designing it, making it beautiful. So that's really fun. But listen, I'm in it. I'm in it. We've also bought a couple cooperative games as a family recently that are really fun. I think there's a new wave of cooperative games. Listener email us about in robotics they call it co-optation. I don't know if I'm getting it right, but it's like a combo of cooperation and competition.

Beth [00:41:12] That's fun.

Sarah [00:41:13] I was really inspired by it in lots of different ways, and I've been thinking about that a lot with our games.

Beth [00:41:18] Now, you're playing Mahjong regularly. So you have a weekly game. Is that how you're doing it?

Sarah [00:41:24] Weekly. But sometimes the way our schedules are working, we're playing twice a week in person.

Beth [00:41:28] I like that. I love ritual. I love getting together with people and knowing this where we're going to do it. This is when we're going to do it. I feel like that's where all the best stuff happens. Okay, so I need a little Mahjong club. People in my life. If you want to play, let me know.

Sarah [00:41:43] You're going to love it. You're going to love it so much. I'm excited for you. It's like when somebody is seeing a movie for the first time, you're like, I want to go back and learn it the first time. Actually, now I was telling them the other day, I'm like, I can't decide if I preferred it when I was not getting anywhere close to Mahjong. Now I'll get like one tile away and I'm like I can't decide what was better. When I really didn't know what I was doing so it didn't feel so painful. God, I'm so excited for you to begin this journey.

Beth [00:42:11] This is my year. I'm just trying new things. I'm saying yes to things. I want my brain to be so flexible. That's what I'm really working on. New game, lots of rules. Good. Sounds like the kind of thing my brain needs to be doing right now.

Sarah [00:42:23] That's exactly right. Like new people. Like a fresh meet up. It's just all the components to keep you happy. Just straight up happy. It makes me happy.

Beth [00:42:34] Happy and well.

Sarah [00:42:34] Happy and well- the well part.

Beth [00:42:36] I said to one of our friends this morning in a text message, "We need you happy and well for the long haul." And that's how we all need to be.

Sarah [00:42:44] Yes. Because the wellness part...

Beth [00:42:45] Whatever inputs facilitate happy and well for the long haul. That's what I'm going for.

Sarah [00:42:50] Well, I really loved them the most because my youngest son got the Norovirus that is everywhere.

Beth [00:42:56] Including here right now in the Silver's house.

Sarah [00:42:58] Including in your home right now.

Beth [00:43:00] In my body in fact. It's okay.

Sarah [00:43:02] I was like, "Do you still want me to come and you know one of my kids had Norovirus." And Renel [sp] was like, "Yeah, don't lick my food we'll be okay."

Beth [00:43:11] It's not like anyone anywhere has not already been exposed to it.

Sarah [00:43:14] Yeah. But it's like just prioritize what you can. Be well. Do the things that make you happy. Get you some Mahjong tiles. Guys, it's going to make your life better. I'm just telling you. The gaming with the people in person- key to happiness. Key to happiness. Thank you for being with us here today. We will be back in your ears on Friday with another whiteboard conversation with Representative Greg Landsman. Until then, have the best week available to you.

[00:43:41] Music Interlude